This episode features an interview with David Duncan, Owner & CEO of Silver Oak Cellars and Andrea Robinson, Master Sommelier. In this episode, they talk about cultivating traditions, meeting guests in the moment, and being the ambassador to a joyful experience.
This episode features an interview with David Duncan, Owner & CEO of Silver Oak Cellars and Andrea Robinson, Master Sommelier. In this episode, they talk about cultivating traditions, meeting guests in the moment, and being the ambassador to a joyful experience.
Quotes
*“My favorite wine descriptor is trust. What we focus on with our entire team is a consistent experience and a great bottle of wine that people can come back to and enjoy again and again.” - David Duncan
*“I'm in service to the customer who's buying the wine and investing in spending their time in my presence, creating that moment, reading what their needs are. But I’m also in service to the wineries and winemakers. They are the artisans. They are the preservers of open space and agricultural land and tradition.” - Andrea Robinson
Time Stamps
*[7:15] Creating a moment for the customer
*[8:55] Aligning employees to provide a great CX
*[14:05] How sustainability as part of CX pays off
*[20:22] Encouraging customers to expand their horizons
*[22:01] Pivoting with changing tastes
*[27.45] Offering diversity initiatives
*[30:11] How the pandemic has changed customer interactions
*[36:16] Measuring customer satisfaction
Bio
David owns four brands: Silver Oak Cellars, Twomey Cellars, OVID Napa Valley and Timeless Napa Valley. Silver Oak’s new winery in the Alexander Valley is first in the world to achieve net positive energy, net positive water status and earn LEED (Leader in Energy and Environmental Design) Platinum certification.
Andrea is one of only 28 women in the world to hold the title of Master Sommelier. She’s a best-selling author, holds 3 James Beard awards and developed a game-changing line of stemware called The ONE.
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Links:
Connect with David on LinkedIn
Connect with Andrea on LinkedIn
David Duncan: My favorite wine descriptor is trust. What we focus on with our entire team is a consistent experience and a great bottle of wine that people can come back to and enjoy again and again.
Andrea Robinson: I'm in service to the customer who's buying the wine and investing in spending their time in my presence as opposed to somebody else's place. Um, for, to create that moment, to have that experience.” + “but I also feel extremely in service to the wineries and winemakers to your point, because they are the artisans. They are the preservers of, uh, open space and agricultural land and tradition.
Narrator: Hello and welcome to The Customer Experience Show! In this episode, we talk with David Duncan, Founder and CEO of Silver Oak Cellars, and Master Sommelier, Andrea Robinson. David owns four brands: Silver Oak Cellars, Twomey Cellars, OVID Napa Valley and Timeless Napa Valley. Silver Oak’s new winery in the Alexander Valley is the first in the world to achieve net positive energy, net positive water status and earn LEED* Platinum certification. Andrea is one of only 28 women in the world to hold the title of Master Sommelier. She’s a best-selling author with 3 James Beard awards and a game-changing line of stemware called The ONE.
In this episode, David and Andrea talk about cultivating traditions, meeting guests in the moment, and being the ambassador to a joyful experience. But first, a word from our sponsor.
Phil Dillard: How do your customers feel when they do business with your company? The answer’s not just in the words they use, but in the tone of their voice and their body language. Listening to your customers means paying attention to all three. But listening is only half the battle. You need to be willing to incorporate their feedback. Let’s think not only about striving for customer satisfaction, but for customer joy. Today we’re talking about creating moments of joy that customers will want to make into traditions for years to come.
Hello again, everyone. And welcome to another episode of The Customer Experience Show. I'm your host, Phil Dillard. And today we have a very special treat. We have our first time where we've had two guests on at the same time. And it's an amazing topic, cause we're talking about something that I love, but don't know like a fraction of what these guys know in a day about. And this is talking about wine and customer experience around it with David Duncan, owner and CEO of Silver Oak Cellars and Andrea Robinson, Master Sommelier. Welcome to The Customer Experience Show. How are you doing today?
Andrea Robinson: Doing great. How about you?
David Duncan: Great, thanks. Phil. Glad to be here.
Phil Dillard: Outstanding. We're great. It's it's a beautiful start to the day. So I don't even know where to begin cause I read your bios and I, and they are just so impressive of all the different things that you've done and accomplished in an industry that people are so curious about. So, I mean, I guess I would, start ladies, first with Andrea. And then, David. And I, and ask the simple starter question that I do with everyone. Can you just tell me a little bit about how you describe your company and what you do in the, in your role.
Andrea Robinson: So my company is kind of multi-faceted in the wine space, but really focused around education and travel and tourism and food. Kind of the, bringing those three things together. And then as a sideline, about 10 years ago, I designed a line of glassware to simplify wineglass selection for people who had started to get the idea that a great glass matters, but how many do you really need to have the, right wine experience? And part of, I guess it's really part of my overall approach to simplifying a topic that is alluring, but intimidating.
Phil Dillard: Like, the topic of selecting the right glass for the right wine?
Andrea Robinson: Yeah. And the topic of wine in general.
Phil Dillard: Yes. I mean, I would expect that most people start with a very basic experience with wine and that it grows over time. And if they're like me, the first time I saw a bunch of different glasses. They said, what am I supposed to do with all of these things? Right. And then, you know, and then you see people who are doing different things with wine, like swirling it and smelling it and spitting it. And you say, w what am I supposed to do with all of that? And it grows. Your experience grows over time. So I guess I have you to thank, people like you to thank for making it a little easier to to move along. So, David, how would you describe your company and what you do every day?
David Duncan: Well, thanks Phil. Yeah. So, you know, we, this is actually 2021 is an exciting year. This is our 50th vintage for my family in the wine business. And we are a family owned company that began in 1972. Today we own four different brands. So we have Silver Oak Cellars, Twomey Cellars Ovid Napa Valley and Timeless Napa Valley. And you know, what I really think about is I like to say we create a moment. So, you know, generally people are enjoying a bottle of fine wine for some purpose, rather whether it's a celebration or remembering somebody, or a milestone. And so, you know, that's what that I think about, you know, sort of on a day-to-day basis, is we're not really trying to make wine to compete with other wines. We're trying to make wines to be enjoyable with family and friends and a meal, primarily. And you know, it's a great, it's a great thing. Because we get so many stories and I'm sure we'll get into this in the CX discussion. So it's you know, that's the way that I think about you know, what we do. And I'd say my favorite wine descriptor is trust. And so what we focus on with our entire team is a consistent experience and a great bottle of wine that people can come back to and enjoy again and again.
Phil Dillard: You know, I love the way you, both of you answered that question because you don't talk about the role or the title, but really what you're trying to deliver the, to the, customer: a moment demystification trust easy access, a great experience. And those to me, I think are really important components of customer experience. But. you know, for a lot of our listeners, we've had a lot of like big corporate and big technology folks, but dealing with something that's different, so different in such a experiential thing customer experience might sound a little different to them. So I'm curious as we get into this, how do you describe, how do you describe customer experience in your enterprise? I'll start with David first on this one. How do you describe customer experience? How do you get involved in it? And what's the role of customer experience in creating a moment for people over, over dinner?
David Duncan: Well, you know, it's funny because I think that in some of the materials we've reviewed and in the industry lingo, CX is a new term. But I think we've been thinking about customer experience for decades. Because you know, really, again, like a bottle of fine wine is is an experience and creates, often creates the moment. And so, you know, I think that today we really think about it. I mean, for us, I think it's a very multi-faceted thing, because we have the experience, if you're in the tasting room, at the winery, we have your experience at a fine dining restaurant, perhaps with the sommelier. We have the experience you have pulling the cork at home or having somebody ooh and ah if you give a bottle of our wine as as a gift for instance. You know, and so I think we really are, we really think about all of those different moments and the opportunities to you know, deliver that on that promise. And so that, you know, that includes not only pouring the glass of wine and tasting it, but also how the package looks and how it looks on the shelf and how it ends up presented at a restaurant. And, you know, there's just so many different parts of that, that, that customer experience is something to, you know, to think about at each step along the way.
Phil Dillard: So organizationally, does that mean that there are different departments that take care of each component of that experience? And when you think about customer, well, when you think about customer experience, as it's new, newly branded customer experience, how do you integrate the experience of the, of the customer across those different departments? It's not just the grapes. It's not just growing the grapes or blending the grapes or the or aging the grapes, that there's a whole lot more that you described there. How do you make that? How do you think about how to make that work across those different touch points?
David Duncan: Well from a business standpoint you know, I, to me, I would say it's all about culture. And so I think the alignment of our teams around what we do and what we're trying to produce is something that you know, we share, across the entire organization from, you know, how we interact with our vineyard workers, to the cellar crew, to the tasting room staff, to our salespeople to the winemaking team. And so, you know, we try and create a wonderful place to work and people are committed to you know, everybody knows that we're trying to create a product that you know, that creates that moment. Again, I keep coming back to the same theme, but it's a pretty good drum to bang on. And you know, one of the things that we celebrate a lot at the winery are what we call bottle stories. And so, you know, we have literally thousands of stories that we know of people having experiences with our wine and especially for some of the more poignant ones as we share those across the organization you know, it helps everybody get it, right. And remember you know, what the ultimate goal is. And so that, that brings a lot of buy-in and a lot alignment. You know, we're not that big of an organization, so we can, you know, we can communicate with everybody really regularly and keep the team on you know, focused on that delivery of the product.
Phil Dillard: That makes a lot of sense, David, and it seems like the brand promise is about culture and stories and experience. And the bottle story is to move to someone like Andrea. If You're the sommelier, right? How does that work? Like, I don't know how many people know the relationship between sommelier and say the vineyard themselves, the wine makers themselves. Can you talk a little bit about that relationship and how, like, how your bottle stories might be similar or it might be different?
Andrea Robinson: So I love that you asked the question that way, because I've always viewed my customer going both directions in the value chain in the sense that, I'm in service to the customer who's buying the wine and investing in spending their time in my presence as opposed to somebody else's place. For, to create that moment, to have that experience. I'm in service to making sure that happens. And that, means reading what their needs are. How much, do they want to talk about wine? What do they care about? Do they look like they have had a great day and they want to say why like their kid just graduated or whatever. I want to to connect with them. And I feel very strongly about that, but I also feel extremely in service to the wineries and winemakers to your point, because they are the artisans. They are the preservers of open space and agricultural land and tradition. As you'll learn from David, especially w winemakers like Silver Oak and that, and, the family company, they are very much stewards of the land, right. They're really truly leaders in what it means to go forward with agriculture in a way that's responsible and and actually like net positive, as opposed to taking, I mean, they're going for like really carbon, not neutral, but like positive or negative or whatever you say to where they're actually taking it out of the system, because agriculture can do that. So to me, if I've taken those bottles stories, which in the case of the, me to the customer, as the conduit for all that the winemaker stands for, that is that is, that's success. That's a win because then my customer comes away feeling really smart and feeling really important because I've spent this time taking care of them, that they also feel great. Right? Cause at these days, people, they want to invest in pleasure, but they also want to know that they're doing it and that it matters. That it makes sense. It makes a difference. So, so that's where I connect those dots. And then I also make sure that they get a sense of a tasting note and a sense of how to think about the dish and the wine together in front of them. Because, you know, we all love to eat and we deserve to, if we're investing a lot of money in it to have it be awesome. And I can help with that.
Phil Dillard: Sure. It seems like then you're a bit of the ambassador to the wine, an ambassador to the experience, purveyor of of the moment, if someone's choosing to do that in a restaurant or something of that nature. And then you have the ability to extend. But it also seems like there's a great story in that if you're going to talk about this new winery being the first in the world to achieve net positive energy and net positive water status. I read that and I'm just like, wait a minute. I got to hear more about how they do this. Cause like, I want to go back to Silver Oak just for that reason and learn more about the process. And it, so it seems like there is a symbiotic relationship, right? Or a partnership between the two of you in a way that, that helps someone get deeper and deeper into the story and embedded into the culture, which actually makes me go back to David and say, how much of the story, how much of the motivation to to make the commitment to the energy and water profile. How much of that is the culture? How much of that is the demand of the consumer or where does that come from for you?
David Duncan: Well, personally my brother, Tim and I were both card carrying members of an organization in our grade school called CLAW. And I'm going back to the early seventies, I hate to say. And I was, I have my certificate from CLAW from 1978 and my CLAW stands for Clean Land, Air and Water. And actually one of, I think we should, you know, re reinvigorate the society, but, you know, it was something that I learned. And then I spent my summers as a kid working on a cattle ranch. So I was outside we were putting up alfalfa hay and silage corn and raising beef cattle. And so I've been around agriculture really for my whole life. And so when we had the opportunity to acquire a historic piece of property up in the Alexander Valley actually it was owned at one time by Cyrus Alexander that made the namesake of the Appalachian, and build a new winery. You know, our commitment to sustainability, I'd say really with us began in earnest in the vineyards. You know, trying to think about soil health and you know, not using chemical applications to the maximum extent that we possibly can. I mean, and so when we had the opportunity to build a new winery we leaned on our resources from you know, our experience for one thing. But then also from particularly from UC Davis and some of the things they had done when they built the Mondavi winery and you know, it's just a natural extension. And I think Andrea has said it really well, but, you know, we are stewards of the land and in the wine business, we only get to make our product once a year. So, you know, if this is our 50th vintage, I've only made 49 products, you know, really in a way. And so doing it once and doing it right as it was a really important thing. So, you know, as we built the winery, I really wanted to try and kind of prove something. And going for our living building status and lead platinum you know, is the, sort the highest levels of sustainability we could get. And and our whole team came on board with that. We also the president of our winery Tony has a wonderful expression too, that money is also a resource. And so one of the challenges was to achieve these things without, you know, just throwing dollars at it. And you know, I think that what we've gotten a payback on, the winery was finished five years ago and we've gotten a payback on virtually everything we did. The, the water recycling, the energy use are the two biggies. And and so, you know, I'm really proud of what we achieved there and how our team came together and made that happen. And there is a ton of information on our website. If people want to go down this rabbit hole and learn more about what we did particularly about the living building challenge.
Phil Dillard: You know, I think it's really interesting is that you there are so many little interesting nuggets in there, right? What jumps out to me is that, you know, you said I only got to make 49 products. Even though the experience is the product, I'm going to get the 49 iterations of it to put it in the final hands of a consumer. Which is a big deal because you only get a couple shots at it, right? Tech companies, you could screw it up a hundred ways, you know, in your first month of operating and really not upset some people, but, you know, give a thousand people a bad bottle of wine. And you're probably not going to be selling many more bottles of wine, right. And it's it speaks to the culture, it speaks to the approach, it speaks to that ethos of ag. And you talked about, you know, wanting to prove something, but really it seemed to come from that ethos of CLAW, right. Of taking care of the water and doing things the right way. And that, that craftsmanship that says, if I build this, some group build something great. You know, people are going to see the quality in it. So I want to switch back to Andrea and ask like, cause you said something about this too, that if people are going to spend a lot of money for an experience, they want it to be a great experience. But I actually wonder what drives the passion for experience, what drives a connection for people to, to be so excited about what David and Silver Oak have accomplished?.
Andrea Robinson: You know, I think that the idea that it matters, right? Because it's one of the, you know, aspects of life that's a true human need, is to be a part of something that matters. And you can do it in little ways, in small ways. And when people start to feel and realize palpably that they can be a small part of something that matters just by how they spend their time, where they spend their dollar who they support in terms of a product and a purchase that is, I think it's a no-brainer for certainly the, you know, the youngest, the newest generations of wine drinkers that are so passionate about this and so connected with it. And it just, it really makes me happy because I love wine and I'm passionate about wine and I've always known that it matters in the, sense that. you know, the second I first set foot on the floor at Windows on the World in the World Trade Center, I realized, oh my gosh, I am being brought into somebody's, these people's most intimate moments. I mean, there were proposals there, you know, but they chose to be with me. And I from that, point on, realized that mattered. It wasn't curing cancer, and I'd rather be doing that, because it would really matter, but it mattered in a small way and it mattered in an enduring way, in a way that was repeatable. And and it would have that ripple effect. Because if you walk out with a smile on your face, that's going to make a difference to the next person they pass in the hall.
Phil Dillard: Sure. You know, the other thing that comes to mind to me is the business side of the equation. David said, You know, we got a payback in is in a very short period of time. And every time I talk with folks in this show who talk about when they achieve something they really wanted to from customer X in a customer experience way, or from sustain- sustainability perspective, the returns financially far exceeded expectations and far exceeded the naysayers, and then everybody felt good about everything that they're doing. And you made another interesting point about the youth. Now I wonder does because their youth are so passionate about the planet. Does it make it easier to introduce to a wine to them because it is sustainably produced because of the way that it's crafted is that, you know, millennials and Zs are all about experience, right? Is that just making the story easier?
Andrea Robinson: It really does make the story easier for that generate those generations. And it also makes opportunities for a diverse story and a diverse picture easier because there, it leaves the door open to I haven't heard of it. I'm okay with that, right. A lot of people that used to be the that people at the aspect of why that intimidated people was that they hadn't heard of it and they're like it, and so it's, and it was a gamble. I get that and that's why he knows job security for sommeliers, because you could take away some of the some of the risk by reassuring and standing by your recommendation if they weren't happy. But now, people are ready to expand their horizons because you can introduce to them a different region, a different grade, a different approach. And if it has that ring of authenticity around what we're talking about here that is enough, right? That and the adventure of it.
Phil Dillard: Absolutely. I want to kind of extend on that thought too. First in the direction of the sommelier and the producer of the things that support the experience like the glassware, and then come back to David on the wines. If you start it in this, in this small price, improve something. People who try to operate at the level that you guys are trying to improve, you achieve because you want to achieve. You do more because it's fun. You prove that you could push the boundaries because you can. And then what generally happens in a lot of industries is people the bar is elevated, right? And there are all these, you lower the bar to that achievement because you push the boundary. So where do you see the boundaries going, given what you've learned and what you've been able to push forward?
Andrea Robinson: I think the boundaries are the, where we're expanding in so many ways. And I think that this is also driven by the customer experience mandate and it's and the business case supports it, is we're seeing the boundaries are expanding in terms of packaging, right, where the industry looks and says, I need to meet the customer where they are in the case with cans, for for the beach or screw caps, because you can't carry a corkscrew with you or they're unwieldy to operate. And then I think also the boundaries are really around It opens the doors for the wine experience to infuse into more places and more occasions, because for Americans, it's not a culture we grew up with except for in certain small pockets, like Napa valley, where we are. And so now, though, people are saying, Okay. You know, yeah, wine at the ballpark or you know, or on the beach is cool. And that's a cool thing for our industry, but it's also, you know, there's some good stuff about wine. It's great with food. Red wines have antioxidants, so moderate quantities of it if you're otherwise healthy can be a good thing. So, we've got the business case and we've got these features and benefits for customers and all of the, in the context of enhancing their everyday life, now, not just special occasions anymore. And that's where I think, you know, CX, it just makes me really excited because I want it to be something that people that will enhance their life hopefully more often than, you know, anniversary and birthday.
Phil Dillard: Of course, outstanding. David how would you answer that question? Where do the, where do the boundaries go for you?
David Duncan: Well, you I think like with our sustainability efforts with the winery, our absolute number one goal was to make a better bottle of wine, period, right? That is we didn't do it as a marketing thing or anything like that. We did it to make a better bottle of wine. And now that I've got four vintages under my belt, I can assure you that is the case. And we are in August, we'll be releasing the first wine, which is the 2017 vintage from our lead platinum winery up in Alexander Valley. So we're very excited about that release day, you know, and I think that, you mentioned the millennials and the, you know, the gen Z and they care, you know, they do care. And so, but I also find that we, you know, 10 years ago, even today, you read about in the press, how, you know, people are chasing the millennials and the millennials are drinking you know, a hundred dollar bottles of scotch and tequila and whiskeys and $14 beers. And so they said they were going to move away from red wine. But what we've found, at least, especially for Silver Oak, that, you know, we're a wine brand. I mean, we've been around for 50 years. We were worried about people would say, oh, I don't want to drink Silver Oak because that's, everybody knows what that is. What we've really found now is that we're a family tradition. We, you know, we were on the table with those folks' parents, and they, and they associate that. So as you, if you come visit our tasting rooms today, there, there are many and it's very gratifying to see because I'm, I still identify as a young person, but at somehow age is starting to add up, the numbers are adding up. But it's, you know, it's great to see, and it's so gratifying to to you know, to be part of that and be part of their lives. And, you know, you mentioned Andrea mentioned the ballpark. I'm not sure if she was teeing me up or not, but we have a partnership with the Giants here and you can buy a bottle of Twomey Sauvignon Blanc or a bottle of Silver Oak at the ballpark during the game. And instead of drinking a $12 beer, that would be, you know, that's, you know, it would be a $1.85 a can in the store you know, you can have a fine bottle of wine while you're watching the game and the food quality is increased. And that just brings the entire experience to a completely new level. And you're still watching a baseball game.
Phil Dillard: Sure, absolutely. I mean, you know, I'm originally from Philly and when we went to the ballpark, you get, you know, hot dogs and beer and soda, right. And the fine dining experience, the breadth of food at the Giants ballpark is something that's, you know, unheard of in certain parts of the country, right. But the other thing I think that's really interesting is when you talk about accessibility. And you talk about expanding people it's gotta be impressive. It's gotta be humbling and poignant to fit, to know that people have grown up with your wines. And that is, that's like it's a family tradition wine, It's a special tasting wine, but then you're also trying to expand the brand and make it more accessible. What I heard Andrea say was talking about in terms of packaging and in terms of accessibility, but what I'd also like to ask her about is the great wine made simple course and the scholarships and such that you're doing to try to expand the type of people that you're bringing into the community. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Andrea Robinson: Yeah. I've always been a an educator and in you
know, the last 15 years or so my husband and I created a production company, cause I used to have TV shows on traditional cable networks for on wine and it was really fun. But we sort of started to have this feeling that we could do it more nimbly. And and so we started doing our own production and so we have the, you know, we use the sort of virtual world and the new habits that people were acquiring to take our typical education program, which there's a book, there's a video wine course and bring it to a live course that we could deliver that we could deliver digitally virtually like this. and as part of that early in the year, you know, I had been on and asked to be on a lot of diversity equity and inclusion panels and discussions that were all of course done by Zoom. And I would, I thought this is great, but I want to do something more concrete. So we got funding and sponsorship for, for, 10 BIPOC women's scholarships, full scholarships with all the wines for this eight week series. We're going to be repeating that in the fall and actually expanding on the offerings because we want our industry to, look like our, our public and and you know, all of the studies from McKinsey and all of the, you know, main sources of that kind of data and analysis really underscore that the business case for targeting diverse populations with your products, but also populating your teams with diverse perspectives, just it pays. It simply does. And it also, It feels right And it and it's your customers care, but you also just have the, business case. And so that's a big part of it. Plus for me, I was so, so personally helped and mentored by a great sommelier, Kevin Zraly. And and I never forgot just how how important that's been to me. It continues to this day. And I really feel I owe it to his legacy and his example to continue that.
Phil Dillard: That's awesome. It sounds like, as that in, in that ambassador role, in that, I mean, the sommeliers are so few of you, there's so few master somms out there, right, who do that work and have the ability to share the art with people in such a compelling way. It's gotta be empowering then to like, actually be able to expand that to different folks. I'm curious about actually makes me think about touchpoints and I'm gonna come to David with this one first and then come back to Andrea. Yeah. I would assume that Andrea has a lots of touch points directly with people because she's going to see more and more of those moments every day. But tell me if I'm right or wrong, david, like, how do you guys capture the touch points with the consumers so that you know whether what to make the next year or what innovations to bring into the, to the packaging or distribution or you know, the business side of it? Because once you make the wine, you guys still have to package and distribute it and get people to experience it, right. And that's gotta be where maybe a lot of the touch points are with the consumers. W how would you respond to that?
David Duncan: Oh, yeah. I mean, there's so many and I think how we communicate and feed that information back and forth has, you know, the pandemic frankly, has changed that dramatically. Andrea and I were just having a little chat before we started. You know, that not only have I personally been able to interact with consumers in a way that, you know, it just, you just can't go do every wine dinner. But you know, I've been in the last month I've been in you know, we've had the opportunity to be in Costa Rica and I've been in Texas and I've been, and I haven't been on a plane and or, you know, our, most lovely international sales rep you know, literally is all over the world. And Zoom, you know, the online video platform is so much more accepted now. Or and the flip side of that is also the groups of people that I've been able to interact with that, you know, we've had, I've had groups of CEOs in the room for, for a wine tasting that would simply never all come to the winery at the same place, like that would never ever happen. Or we've done, you know, done that I did a tasting with the Golden State Warriors where we had all of their principle partners and the owner and the coach and every you know, like all in, on a virtual tasting. And so those types of touch points of, you know, have changed dramatically. But, you know, ultimately I think it comes down to being face-to-face with somebody you know, trying to walk through the tasting room for me personally I love walking up to people and kind of saying, you know, who are you? Where are you from? And why are you here? You know? And so, and just, you know, just one, one bottle at a time or one glass at a time, that's how we think about it.
Phil Dillard: Sure, you know, there've been a number of folks who've talked about how the pandemic has changed business, and I'm curious how substantively it will change your business because I've been to a number of tasting rooms in the wine country, but I've also had a couple of recent tasting experiences virtually. And though they are different that I would think they're both, they both been valuable to me and I think they're both potentially valuable to the business. So can you give an idea of like, how it changes, how you think it would change a little bit of your methodology for the, towards the business? It might be actually very helpful for those of our listeners who are doing things with physical products and with consumer products to say how they could think about the future of engaging consumers since they used to have it in such a rich one-on-one way. Can you comment on that?
David Duncan: Well, to me, I think maybe we've added, you know, a different use case that I think that you know, if you come visit wine country, that's one use case. And what I always sort of hope is that somebody would go back to Kansas City or St. Louis or Chicago or New York or Miami, and remember their time here from that customer experience that they had and order a bottle of wine from us because of the experience that we delivered at the winery. And so I think you've sort of added a whole new channel, which is the virtual you know, wine tasting channel. And we've had many occasions, I mean, probably thousands, frankly of interactions with people where, you know, either their boss will send them a couple of bottles of wine or they'll buy wine for themselves. We haven't pitched too many, you know, you can go on our website and you can sign up for a virtual tasting. We'll send you the wines and you can join with me or one of our taste room associates and you know, and have that real personal experience without ever leaving your living room. And so that's a new use case for us.
Andrea Robinson: Well, I, I could you know, echo what David's saying about that because in, in, and David have done some of these programs for large firms and and it, so many companies have sought to continue to be able to engage with their customers and their employees during the time of remote work. And what I started to observe to David's point about the new use case is that there are a couple of benefits to the virtual. And so that's why in our education classes, we've taken the production value up so that people can feel like it's a little less Zoom and a little more like high quality television, but they're live and they're connected, so it's two way. But what you saw, what you've seen with this is first of all, if it's a senior leader who's hosting a meeting, the chance is that they get a top to top alignment with in terms of their guest base is a lot higher because if it's the CMO and they're targeting, You know, the their a counterpart at their customers. There's more of those people that can tune into the virtual then maybe be able to show up at the conference in Vegas or Boca. So that's a number of benefit number one, and benefit number two is after the business meeting's over and David and I come on for the wine tasting, guests who can join? The significant other. So David sent you the wine, has chef has prepared this nice food to go with it. And, you know, we S we did see that then, you know, the spouse or significant other joins and they're sharing that bottle and tasting. So that person got to have that quality time with the leader of the company and with their compatriots. And then they got to share the fun social part with somebody that they care about without having to drive, without having to fly, without having to separate from that person. And, sometimes it's great to go to a conference, but those are two unbelievable benefits for getting the cost savings that I think are really powerful and will probably be duplicated and improved on, just with, you know, better production values, and I mean, nobody can touch the food and wine that Silver Oak managed to send out for some of the events we did. But but that's, they've set the bar. They've expanded that boundary too. So that's cool.
David Duncan: Yeah, I was going to say, Andrea is not talking hypothetically. We've actually done this for together. So it's been really a neat journey.
Phil Dillard: And And how do you measure that? How do you measure the, I mean, it's easy to estimate the cost savings, right. And the time savings, but how do you measure or capture the sentiment of the people or the extra new business opportunity? What how do you, I would assume both of those matters. How do you measure that?
Andrea Robinson: I mean, I'll just give the the answer from what I've seen. I've seen people, and this is an interesting dynamic, right? Because a lot of times there are multiple customers who might be, they might be competitors. They're probably not but like you get, you've got the CTOs of the chief technology or cybersecurity officers of all these different companies. They're actually getting to share with each other and solve kind of problems. How did you guys address this? How did you guys address that? There's huge business value with the pur the company that brought them all together for that facilitation that they wouldn't be able to do on their own. I think how they measure it is, I've seen directly people say, hey, we need to follow up with you on your new you know, on your new encryption solution and, you know, two or three out of the 10 say we are about to make a decision on this. So thank you for this, I'll follow up. I see It directly in the discussions. And then I'm sure they go back and follow up and they measure, you know, really kind of customer sat. I'm sure they ask, you know, hey, what'd you think we'd love to, you know, improve on this for the next time. And that's a one-on-one type of thing. But also when it's great, they don't even have to ask because the person says at the end, this was awesome. So when you're able to have that and everyone's on the screen it kind of starts, it gets a little contagious too, and people are chatting in, there's this enthusiasm that you might not have had in another setting.
Phil Dillard: Super David, do you have anything that you would add to them? just, Iat?
David Duncan: I mean, I think, you know, you asked about sort from a value proposition, time proposition. I mean, for me, you know, I just, at the end of of trying to be around to help raise my kids. And so I've tried not to travel much and you know, a lot of people in my position are on the road four days a week. You know, I've been fortunate that we have an amazing sales team and i, but even if I'm on the road, you know, on average a day, a week or two days a week, you know, I might go do a wine dinner in a city and I'll see 60 people in one evening where doing Zoom tastings, which normally I wouldn't be involved in, in, in that many, you know, I could see hundreds of people in a week and be home for dinner with the family. So, you know, from a participation standpoint, it's just given me the opportunity to have, you know, really much more direct participation. We always host our tastings in a very open way. So people are asking questions in the chat or just getting live on the mic. And if there's 60, I mean, I've done tastings for more than 500 people. And so it's you know, from time to time like that's a very interesting dynamic again that, you know, just frankly didn't, we didn't, we just didn't, either the technology existed, but it didn't feel comfortable. So we were forced into this new paradigm that frankly I think is in some ways here to stay. I'm also looking forward to going back on the road a little bit too, but...
Phil Dillard: Sure, but you now have a balance of the tools, right. People know that it's okay. They know that they can work from home. They know that they can learn from home. They know that they can play from home. They can experience something new and they could get a tasting size of this and say, great, I want, want more. And not only might it be a great experience because they could share it with their significant other, as opposed to just themselves on the road for a business trip, but also, you know, they can order more. They've started, they're comfortable with a digital experience. They get to know David as the brand or Andrea as a somm and learn more about the experience and open up their whole world in a virtual way, which actually might make the trip to Napa Valley even more enticing, even more special. That's pretty, it's pretty impressive, especially for a younger audience, if you're trying to step them into something. So it seems like, you know, there's some great learnings outta here we can go with. I feel horrible that we don't have more time to talk about this right now. Cause I feel like there's like so much to uncover, so much to get into, but I know you have busy schedules and I have to let you go. So I will have to reluctantly move into the lightning round. So first question, I'll start with Andrea. And then David, if you could do after, as a consumer, what's an example of one of your favorite experiences?
Andrea Robinson: Oh, as a consumer, I think one of my favorite experiences and I'm going to just, you know, be inveterately Disney centric. I really love the experience that they deliver at Walt Disney World. I always thought it would be something that would be just for little kids. But it's truly a they've thought of everything. And they never fail on the whole ethos that you're very important. And your joy is is what they're about.
Phil Dillard: Awesome. David?
David Duncan: I have a wonderful Robert Mondavi story, but it's too long. So I will say that my, my second favorite thing is I was a very early Amazon Prime member And I live in a small community and it's difficult to get things. And so as much as I try and support our local businesses, I do order stuff from Amazon. And they have started a thing where you are guaranteed two day delivery, but you get it the next day. And when I get my package a day early, it makes me feel awesome about them, even though they're the 800 pound gorilla. And so, you know, I'd say that's just what popped into my head.
Phil Dillard: Super. Thanks for that. Yeah. And like, sometimes you love them and sometimes you're like, you want to hate them, but you can't. That's great. Okay. Second question. If there's one thing you could change about people's perception of the role of customer experience, what would it be? Andrea?
Andrea Robinson: I think they're listening to the co the question or the complaint rather than feeling the feeling of the customer. So it's not what they asked in and what you said or what they experienced that was suboptimal. It's the emotion of disappointment. And so you have to connect with that. That's all important because then that validates their feelings no matter what. It validates the importance of their mindset and they're going through their day feeling okay.
Phil Dillard: Outstanding.
David Duncan: I think in this question that, you know, something that is new and that we need more of, and, you know, in our society really is the the role that the server provides to the customer. And that you're both human beings. You're both people, you both have your own worries. And that, you know, I learned many years ago to never yell at the person behind the counter at the airport, right. Like, they're there, my problem is not their problem. And so I think that you know, when and you know, I love that story about the Southwest Airlines saying, you know, we will miss you. And you know, sometimes the brand and the customer experience is not for everybody. And sometimes you need to know when to do that. So I think the main thing is to have the customer, knowing that
Phil Dillard: Okay.
David Duncan: The person on the other side of the phone or at the customer service desk or your server at the table, or the person pouring your water to restaurant or whatever that is, you know, is, needs to be treated with dignity and respect and love.
Phil Dillard: Yeah, that's a great one. The role of the server, my problem is not their problem. There are, I've seen a lot of people at airports who could really appreciate that lesson the next time I use it, I will definitely I'll definitely let you know. Cause I will probably use that out there in this world somewhere. So, okay. Last question. For our listeners, what one lesson would you want them to take away from your experience as a business owner, as a sommelier at Silver Oak?
Andrea Robinson: The one thing that I would want them to take away from my experience is, and I think it, it takes off of what David was previously saying. That that humility is the most important thing to keep in mind when, in, in what you do in the sense that as if you begin to maybe have accomplishments it's always important to remember that the value of those is to what they can do for somebody else. And so if, how you're applying those, isn't in service of that goal it doesn't matter, and it's not important.
David Duncan: I would say, you know, as a Vintner I often, or not often, but from time to time, we'll be chatting, we'll be facing a particular challenge or a production issue or the weather, or, you know, whatever it is. And I'll tell our team, we make wine. Like I have to remind them that, you know, w what we do is to provide pleasure and provide joy. We are so fortunate to be in this role as stewards of the land and, you know, making a product that people are going to enjoy and an important moment in their life. And we're, you know, we're not trying to save lives. We're not trying to, you know, build electric cars or whatever thing, you know, whatever challenge it is. And and so it's a very joyful role and position and thing to do. And, you know, that's really, I think our overarching goal is to bring, you know, bring joy to people's lives, even just for a moment.
Phil Dillard: And I think that's extremely well said. And consistent with the culture that you are talking about, because what I take away from this conversation is that your industry and you as professionals in this industry, you're, you're proud, you're humble. you're thoughtful. You're respectful of both the process and the product and the consumer. The, those pieces of culture that make us human and keep us connected and give us experiences to reflect on and make the work worth it matter. And I think the important thing that I want the listeners to take away from this one, is that you can do this in whatever you do, right. And if you're doing the right thing, you're taking that passion into what you can do. And I think if you can bring joy to your work, then everyone who touches you in whatever part of the world that they're experiencing you in, then they will have a joyful experience throughout their day. And I think with all that is going wrong in our country and on our planet, to have more joyful experiences, if we can pay those little bits and pieces forward, we'll be in a better place. So with that, I thank you so much for joining us and for sharing a little bit of your expertise and your wisdom. And I hope everybody takes a a good listen to this and gets a lot out of it. Thank you so much for your time.
Andrea Robinson: Thank you.
David Duncan: Thanks, Phil. Andrea, always a pleasure.
Andrea Robinson: Great to be with you. Everybody come see us in Napa Valley. We'll see you real soon.
Phil Dillard: Yeah. And thanks again for listening to another episode of The Customer Experience Show. We'll see you next time.
I love what Andrea says about feeling the emotions of customers, and David’s addition that both servers and customers are human. It’s a reminder to treat everyone with value, to remain present, and to always strive to inspire joy.