This episode features an interview with Mark Hall, a business leader at Google. He manages partnerships with startups and venture capital firms. Mark is also a contributor to Forbes on the topics of tech, leadership, and venture capital. We talk with Mark about cultivating effective partnerships, shepherding new businesses into being, and leveraging Google’s resources to ensure their success.
This episode features an interview with Mark Hall, a business leader at Google. He manages partnerships with startups and venture capital firms. Mark is also a contributor to Forbes on the topics of tech, leadership, and venture capital. We talk with Mark about cultivating effective partnerships, shepherding new businesses into being, and leveraging Google’s resources to ensure their success.
3 Takeaways:
Key Quotes:
Bio:
Mark leads Google's west coast partnerships with startups and venture capital firms. He's been at the company for over 8 years and spent a large portion of his tenure in the company's cloud division. Mark is also a contributor to Forbes, writing on the topics of technology, business and culture, and has been featured in Business Insider and Huffington Post.
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Mark Hall: So prioritizing relationships and recognizing that, right. Periods of give and take on both sides is a natural order of that process and embracing that as key, right? Not looking at it, you know, from one dimension and not seeing it as I'm constantly taking or I'm constantly giving. If you have a dynamic relationship or a customer experience process that allows you to ensure that there's that back and forth and continued building and strengthening of relationship, that's key.
Meredith O'Neil: Hello and welcome to The Customer Experience Show! On this episode, we talk with Mark Hall, head of west coast venture capital and startup partnerships for Google. Mark spent much of his over eight years at Google in their Cloud division. He is also a contributor to Forbes, writing about tech, consumer trends and the startup ecosystem, and his writing has been featured in Business Insider and Huffington Post, among others.
On this episode, Mark talks about building dynamic and effective partnerships, helping startups grow and leveraging Google’s resources to drive growth. But first, a brief word from our sponsor.
Phil: Partnerships are a unique relationship in the business world. Unique because they take time. Time to build trust, Time to learn to communicate, Time to work in tandem. In this situation, there’s less pressure to make a transaction or deliver immediate results, and with that longer-term view, the relationship itself takes priority. Now, there’s inherently some give and take and some mistakes made along the way, but it’s all part of the dynamic process of building lasting relationships.
Let’s talk about what it takes to build an effective partnership.
Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of The Customer Experience Show. I'm your host, Phil Dillard here with Mark Hall. How are you doing today, Mark?
Mark Hall: Doing well, Phil, how are you doing today?
Phil: Doing great. I'm doing great. Great to have you with us. We warmed up a little bit. Let's just get started. So, I think everybody knows who your company is or thinks they know. How do you describe your company and what your role is?
Mark Hall: yeah, absolutely. First off, thanks again for having me. So, I work at Google. I lead partnerships, between some of our west coast partners in the venture capital and startup ecosystem. Obviously, Google is a company a lot of folks are most folks are familiar with, from the consumer and business products and platforms that we offer. That's most people's touch points. I think for a lot of people, they're not aware that Google has a number of different teams and organizations dedicated to the startup ecosystem and even more as well in the venture capital side. And that's where I sit
Phil: Can we talk a little more about that? If people know a little bit about Google, I think some people think search, I think consumer products, some people think technology. What sort of partnerships, what does that partnership with the venture capital world mean for Google?
Mark Hall: It comes in different shapes and forms, but I think to take a quick step back, our approach like broadly it's, as a company is like to organize the world's information, make it universally accessible. And that mission how we. Transform that mission over time really involves like how we work with different folks in the ecosystem. The venture capital space is unique in that it invests in the industry, particularly technology, where we focus in companies that ultimately, hopefully grow and change certain markets and ecosystems for the better. So working with different stakeholders in that ecosystem allows us to not only make sure we're providing value to up and coming companies, but to ensure that folks are aware of our products and platforms in a way that hopefully they can leverage so that it makes them a little more successful, to your more direct question, what those partnerships look and feel like. They're really bespoke, depending on the needs of a lot of our partners. When we talk about partners, the way I define that word, it might be a little unique to how some other organizations look at it. Sometimes it's in a formal capacity, sometimes less formal capacity, but ultimately what it looks like is. In exchange of value, right? And we want to make sure that whatever we're bringing to the table, there's something real and material there. And whatever our partners are delivering to us is really material. And sometimes that's as simple as, insights and understanding what's going on in the marketplace sometimes, that's you know, connection points to, industry leaders and product experts. And sometimes that’s, just understanding of how Google is approaching, particular, segment. So it really comes in different shapes and forms, but yeah, we're excited to see how we can contribute to the venture ecosystem and, ideally, help startups continue to grow and flourish.
Phil: Sure. Thanks for that explanation. That really helps provide a little bit of context because we have different types of leaders on the show and we run different types of teams. Can you tell me a little bit about how your team thinks about customer experience?
Mark Hall: Yeah, no, absolutely. So I think customer experience, from my view at least is that end-to-end client perception of like how they're engaging with you, google is a really large organization, but by no means, do I speak for kind of the broad company? Because every product area, every business unit has a slightly different approach, but in my world, really, our customers, our clients, we look at CX is. The way that they engage and interact with us and how positive, or how much we're meeting or not meeting those expectations. Really that's from the first touch point and, to have that ongoing relationship and how we make them feel, how we deliver value and how we're able to communicate with them on a regular basis, the way we go about prioritizing these things. Oftentimes it's first up being aware of. And what are the goals of all the parties involved and how we could make sure that we're bringing our best foot forward and whatever way that means, being able to track and monitor how these relationships evolve over time, auditing what those goals are and how we're performing against those. And then ultimately iterating to make sure that we're doing a better job than we did yesterday. At a high level, that's how I think about it. Ultimately, I think every organization, regardless of whether you're in a kind of the venture space, whether you're a B2B or consumer company, like you have to prioritize know customer experience because it becomes the lifeblood of your success.
Phil: Sure. Of course. And given the base of the clients that you're working with, can you describe what is essential in the experience that's for them? And by that, some folks, some organizations, they have different demands have different needs, right? Are they other common trends or common threads across what these, what this community needs that's different than others you've worked with in the past?
Mark Hall: that's a good question. I wouldn't say, things are particularly. Different, I think what are the common trends and needs that they have? I think they fall across a couple of buckets. So first and foremost, it's understanding how Google can be helpful to them. And, in many cases that might be a product enablement or project education around. What are the platforms that we build or service that are gonna help, either our direct clients or partners or their portfolio companies grow and succeed? So that's one component. The other is somewhat network-based right. What are the touch points that we have? Either internally or within the ecosystem where we can connect dots and ideally, make them more successful through our external network. So that's another big component. And then when you think from a support standpoint, as great as, we strive to be oftentimes, w the mistakes will happen on the product side. And we want to make sure that. We have support functions in place to quickly address some of those issues. So those are some of the primary buckets, and I don't think they're in any way distinct from what some of the other sectors would look for from us. But I think the way we approach it tends to be a little different because, we're a little more relationship based in a traditional, sales team. And we take a very different, approach and how like the long-term view and how we engage with our partners.
Phil: Yeah, that makes, it makes a lot of sense, right? Everybody talks about venture being a relationship-based business and that they're going to engage them in relationships with the companies that they invest in and with the partners that provide services. So people really need to know and understand each other and trust each other and know how to, know how to communicate with each other in their same language. So that leads me to another question that basically just says, how did you get to the point where you feel like your background really helps you to great, a great customer experience for those clients.
Mark Hall: Yeah, I love that question. So I started my journey, my career in sales and specifically software sales, and then eventually to infrastructure and cloud platforms. I think sales is one of those roles where I think, most people should try it at some point just to get experienced because. What it really allows you to do is to get it. Direct pulse on what the market wants, right? It's the clearest indicator of demand for a given product or service. So that was my inroad and understanding the importance of communication and, research and preparation. But then also ensuring that whatever you're bringing to the table, Is a real value. And if it's not, the market will gut check you and provide that feedback. So that was my first experience in at least being forced or having a forcing function to, to allow me to think through what is a good client experience main. And as it's transitioned to my current world, I think I've taken the best lessons and learnings. First and foremost, it's understanding your client, your partner, having done the work. Understanding the background as to really where they're coming from, what their goals are, why they're even looking to engage with you. And once I think you have a firm understanding of that, it gives you the credibility. If you will, to, connect and introduce yourself, from a point of value in. Obviously coming to the table with something clear to say or something clear to offer, really specific and tactical and strategic in nature. I think that's important. And then having a game plan around what some successful engagement would include, look like, ultimately that's critical. And then as you execute on that relationship, like I mentioned before, it's. Having that feedback loop of auditing what's working. What's not, what are the things that we can change? How do we evolve internally to better service, or to better partner with, some of the folks in our ecosystem. And as you do those things, hopefully things improve up into the right, over time. And in the cases they don't typically get feedback for the market in some way, shape or form.
Phil: yeah. Market feedback is always the indicator. And, it sounds like, you're doing a lot of listening and a lot of testing to figure out that you're getting this right sort of feedback. I think the thing that comes to mind to me is versus the next question that comes to mind is like, What's the difference then between what some people do in sales and when some people think of a role in sales being one of customer experience, or are there being components of customer experiences? When is it different? Cause I think to be successful, any salesperson needs to. Needs to listen, right? You can't just broadcast mode all the time. You're never going to get any feedback and you're not going to hear that there's real value. But there's something different when you are, if I'm hearing you right. Customizing your approach, adjusting what you talk about, maybe even adjusting communications internally to actually deliver an, a better experience for a relationship-based customer. Can you talk a little bit about like, When you realized that the role was more customer experience than more sales in a traditional sense,
Mark Hall: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I'd say the moment I realized that was definitely day one, as I was getting up to speed and, doing the homework and talking to peers and colleagues who do similar partnerships work. But I think your point is spot on a lot of. Companies, a lot of organizations and particularly a lot of, sales functions, they have an analog view to what customer experience means. And some of it’s dependent on what that product is service to bring in the market is I've seen, firsthand a lot of organizations that I've engaged with either as a consumer or as a partner , they have this. This evolution from, if you build it, they will come at meaning, the sales folks think that whatever they're bringing to the tables is the best offering. Therefore you owe it to them right there. There's that I think incorrect perspective. And I've seen it shift over, over time to this, minimum viable effort where, salespeople are doing the minimal amount to get that engagement to secure revenue. And oftentimes they pivot and move on. Whereas I think in the partnership space, or even to the point of successful salespeople, I think they take a long-term view, that time horizon in terms of how you look at the value of that relationship. I think that's the biggest delineation between a successful, relationship and partnership versus unsuccessful. And if you're in a position where you can invest today, Maybe extract some value today, but more importantly, look to extract value over the long-term and also provide value over the long-term. I think you're better off. Then attempting to build a short-term relationship, extract value, then pivot onto the next potential partner or customer client. So I think that's one of the biggest distinctions. As I, really got into this space more directly, I realized, being. In a relationship driven market. It's really important that you're able to internalize that the folks we're working with today likely in some way, shape or form, you're going to be working with these people that either same or different organizations arguably free for as long as you're in this space. So it's important that you focus on brand not only the brand of the logo of your company. But also the brand of you, right? How do people perceive how Mark shows up every day? How do people perceive the effort that Mark puts in, even when he's not in front of me? What are those things he's doing and saying to make sure he's driving value so that at a high level, that's the way I look at it and how I try to approach it? And I might not always get it right. But that's what I aspire for.
Phil: That's really great. And it, it speaks to a couple of things, right? The first one it speaks to, I think he is, I think you're telling me about, Personal progression in your career, in your experience and in attitudes of, really understanding the difference between something that's a little more transactional in what you described the way people talked about minimum viable effort to really understanding and working on this whole , Working on things being a mature relationship model. And I didn't get the impression that it was something that was new to you, but something that you saw was valuable and that's something that you enhanced in this relationship-oriented rule, but in the traditional or in some sales folks or sales culture, do you see that there is culture or structure that kind of adds to, or adds to, or takes away from the ability of, sales folks to deliver this. And by that, some sales folks probably have pressure to be transactional. They have pressure to accelerate and move on to the next and to the next versus thinking about something over a longer period of time. And is this a little bit, practice or is this a little bit structure of the organization and the role in the, in that it's a relationship role or is there's a little bit of both? Like how does one tell the difference?
Mark Hall: Yeah. I think it's all the above. Meaning I think incentive structures dictate how people are, you're going to act. And I've had the pleasure of, working in sales organizations, even outside of Google. And obviously I have a lot of colleagues at different organizations and sales capacities, and one of the things that's become clear is. The incentive structure that you create, the tools that you provide, the expectations you said, working across sales, product and marketing. Those are all things that indirectly and directly dictate how people want to engage with clients and prospects and leads. And it's important to be mindful of that. If you're. In a short-term incentive structure, which is common, right. I think you're gonna to some degree get outputs that reflect that. Whereas if you're in a position to have a slightly longer-term horizon, and you're creating incentives that. Encourage a longer-term view, then people are gonna naturally gravitate toward that. And look, I think it's very clear, anybody who's spent time in sales, they understand that there's that balance, organizations have to drive revenue in the short-term and long-term so you can't defer kick the can down the road, on everything. But I think finding that balance and encouraging and creating a culture that does, invite that I think is really important.
Phil: Yeah, absolutely. It seems strategy and structure always matter. Men at balancing the short term and the long-term always matter. But if I'm hearing you the relationship nature of certain business types means that you think more about customer, experience, and sales. The others you have a longer horizon has, maybe this is fair way to paraphrase. If you have a shorter horizon in which you need to deliver results, you might think about the experience in which the inside of that time horizon, but the longer, the time horizons you have to drive to results, the more relationship oriented, the more you can infuse customer experience into that is that a fair statement?
Mark Hall: Yeah, I think that's a great summary.
Phil: Let me just extend on that and go back a little bit to the piece where you talked about, encouraging people to try sales. Cause I, I really loved that piece and I believe that people are always in sales. People are always selling something, but They may not know it and they may not appreciate it. So I guess what I'm thinking about is if people think that they're not in sales, is there anything that you would recommend for them to do or anything that you would suggest that would say get them into, being able to experiment with that testing of value and that learning of, how to engage with folks that you suggested.
Mark Hall: Yeah, I think, like I mentioned, if there's an, if you ever have an opportunity to take some, role or function in sales, I think that would be advantageous, particularly if you're early in your career. If you're not, I think, just understanding what that job looks like either through, research, reading, talking to people in that role. I think it's helpful because at minimum it gives you that empathy to understand what it's like to be on the other side of the table. And what I mean by that is you we're all consumers in some way, shape or form in our personal lives. And our, even in our business and professional lives, we're all consumers of something. And in many cases, lots of things on a daily basis, how something, gets your, initial interests. Attention allows you to take action. These are all things in tools and skills that are helpful and influential in all roles, right? Whether you're in partnerships like I am, whether you're in product, whether you're in marketing. Across most functions, you're going to need persuade and influence people, whether it's, colleagues, leadership, whether you're looking to share your ideas and get people to get on board with, your ideas and vision, all that is a function of, influencing people. And I think in many ways, sales has been branded to be, negative. And short-term when in reality, I think we all business, all commerce requires all those core skills and the people who do that most effectively, are also people who inherently value those skills, which allow them to be great leaders, which allowed them to, move in and transition into, different capacities that value those things. So I think as a core skill set, It could enable anyone who wants to motivate people and influence, action. I think it's really important.
Phil: Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes, I have, in my personal experience and in talking with some of the previous guests, we found that bringing other people into the sales process has been a surprising way to showcase not only the benefit for them, but the benefit for the whole experience. Can you think of a. A time or example maybe where you brought someone from engineering or a more tactical oriented person or a marketer into this process. And it turned into a positive result for them. And for you too, that enhanced the customer experience, enhance the sales process or enhance the relationship.
Mark Hall: Yeah, absolutely. In, in my sales days, there were numerous examples where we would work with, organizations that are looking to, not only play in a given space and they want to understand. How does Google approach technical problems like this? Or how does Google think through, different challenges and, when you're trying to sell into organizations, oftentimes some of the value that you can provide is as simple as well, let us, connect you with our product and engineering teams to understand how we approach these things. Therefore, there's a value exchange there. In addition to that, if you find value in the products that we're offering, that creates more incentive and alignment for us to work together in the long-term. So, I think examples like that are common in many cases, but even as I'm. As a more tactical example, when somebody is looking to evaluate or purchase a product or service, oftentimes they want to see behind the curtain and get a little more context and detail around, either how something's made or how reliable it is or how you approach security or how you think about core set of, problems and challenges. And the best way to do that is to bring in the folks that are really hands-on. And in those cases, it. I think it gives you more credibility. And if you're in a sales capacity or partnerships capacity to say, here are the questions and things you cared about, we're delivering on these things, hopefully that allows us to bridge a stronger relationship based on that.
Phil: Yeah, absolutely. And then, I would expect that on the flip side, the technical person who may not necessarily get out of their day to day might also learn more about. Directly about the customer experience or about the experience you have in the field that actually strengthens your relationship internally as well. Is that a fair.
Mark Hall: Absolutely.
Phil: Super. Thanks for that. what I like to do is shift gears a little bit and talk a little bit about. Visions for customer experience. What customer experience you think means to you and where you would like to, how you would like to see it grow or extend in your ability to in crew they experience or the pervasiveness of customer experience in your role. So can you talk a little bit about, what your vision is. If there were things you would like to do for customers what’s, what does the CX vision for your organization, or even if it's not for customers even that's across the organization, where would you like to bring more of a customer experience mindset into your organization to help , everyone to be more effective in the partnership?
Mark Hall: Yeah. Yeah. I think the answer is everywhere. And that sincerely because it. Like I mentioned earlier, I think we've become hyper aware that the only way we're successful is if we're working with people in a constructive manner, we're understanding what their needs are, how we can bring value. And again, that holds true internally and excellently, right? With clients and partners across the board, to get anything done. Most organizations require people to work both internally and externally. And I think that's the reality. So, your question on like how I aspire, how I think that can. Yeah, better in the future. I think it's a combination of. W one, making sure you're implementing the right processes. Having a open line of communication with people you're working with on a regular basis, having a core set of tools and technologies and platforms that enable you to do that, constructively enable you to document important data points enables you to surface relevant information, and then gather that feedback as things evolve over time. So, it's definitely something. I, in the organization, I work in, striving to get better at. And I think fortunately, we're reaching a point where, and part of it's just as a function of what's going on in the world where we're all forced to step up and communicate. More often more regularly because we're not in the office. As often as we were before we now have technologies and tools that we're using more regularly that previously maybe, we didn't lean on as much because we didn't have to. And I think all of those things create a ecosystem where communication is flourishing. People are being more transparent because, they're having to, in order to accomplish those things on a regular basis and that we're just creating that cycle where if things aren't working well, I needed to know, and therefore I can iterate and evolve so that I think that's the aspiration. And, while I think there's still some ways to go, I think, we're doing pretty well in a lot of those fronts.
Phil: Sure. Are there any been, there've been any of those engagements or technologies recently that have been surprisingly helpful or, that have created opportunities to build trust between maybe, teammates who didn't work together as much or teammates who had to work more together over distance because of the conditions imposed by the pandemic?
Mark Hall: Yeah, look, I don't want to make it too much of a plug, but I genuinely think a lot of that, Google products on the collaboration standpoint, communication standpoint makes it really easy inherently. When I think of kind of the core tools on, communication, whether it's video, audio, and beatings in general is a lot of. Functionality that through bridge that allows those things. So that's one, I think the offline and by that, non-live real time Email while we still use it in a archaic fashion. In many cases, I think at least I do as an individual, there are a lot of, tools and extensions you can use to, to beef up those things. And that's really helpful. And I think generally looking at, a document suite where you're able to quickly access and take notes and then, transition that into action, three different cues and extensions and things like that. So that's one set, right? When you think of. Externally a lot of the tools that, employees across a lot of organizations have become more popular with over the, especially over the last year plus, video and, asynchronous communication and, persistent chat, like all of those things I think are making it easier for people to stay in touch, stay connected both internally and externally. I think as a key example, when you have. An ongoing dialogue, maybe off email, off video in a persistent chat with a client or partner that gives you that flexibility to make sure even on a day-to-day basis, you're staying in tune with what they care about in the moment where you don't necessarily have to defer to the inbox. Those things are helpful. And a lot of this. Have has been available for quite some time. I just think, more recently we've been nudged or pushed to use it more regularly. So those are the things that are top of mind. Personally, I'm excited just because I think over the next couple of years, we're going to see this evolution and transition into a much more immersive set of tools, that are going to enable people to really connect on a, on a more regular basis. And I'm excited about that.
Phil: It's been an incredible transition for so many different folks. We've talked to lots of different folks who have had technology that has enabled them to do things that they've not imagined before or have not really been able to make happen before. I'm curious about the tradeoff between productivity or if there is a trade-off between the productivity side and the experience side, are those trade-offs in your experience? Are those trade-offs or are those complimentary, are there are, the person chat to stay in tune so that you don't have to defer to the inbox? Does that enhance the customer experience or enhance productivity or both?
Mark Hall: I think it's dependent on the client or partner dynamic. And what I mean by that is. Matching the work style, the preferences, the incentive structures of the folks you're working with that becomes the clearest indicator of how you drive success. And what I've learned over my career is, the work style of people varies from person to person and the closer you can get to mirroring that I think the more you're able to drive incremental success day to day, which then compounds. But that said, I think your underlying point is right. That there's some trade off. And for the most part, not everybody wants to be a hyper-connected or not everybody wants to leverage technology to accomplish every single thing. And I think that's an important realization. Ultimately there's that balance. If you find in your world that you can use technology to help with automation or to help with communication, use that where you see fit. And as you start seeing that friction or feedback from your partners and clients, you come off the gas a little bit and you recognize that they have certain preferences. I need to match that. And if you're auditing and you're self-aware with how your productivity. Ebbs and flows. You typically pick up some cues on, oh, this thing is not working because this was the time when I was doing that. And I was using this platform and I'm finding that there's more friction than productivity. So I think it's, again, it's testing and iterating. And while it probably sounds like a lot of work to anybody, who's listening to what I'm saying, all ultimately, there's small ways to do this and to see what's working well. And some of this is just natural to working with external stakeholders.
Phil: I think. Your last statement speaks to your, probably to some of your talent and experience, right? Cause I, I wonder how natural it is for people to actually be that aware and to be that in tune with different folks. it sounds you're doing a lot of listening. You're doing a lot of adjusting and a lot of experimenting, and you're trying to feel when something is working so that you can make an adjustment. I love that. When you say I'm finding there's more friction than productivity. I got to think about how I'm going to, I'm going to make a change. Often in the podcast, we're looking for some of these nuggets that we can. We extract for people to, to pull out and look at for themselves to say how can I apply this to building something great. And I think what you're saying here is a really interesting nugget, right? Because it's not static. It is this matching a successful work style means you really have to, you really have to attune yourself to listen and you in the. The technology can be a tool, but it can't be a, it can't be a crutch. I'm wondering from that perspective, though, do you see any technology that you think will be very important to the future of successful experience? Something emerging, something you're working on, something you're experimenting with?
Mark Hall: One thing I think I'm generally looking forward to, just based on my consumer behavior and my , interest in how people can connect. I do think things like virtual reality, I think, ambient computing more broadly, it's going to allow people to connect not only with other, stakeholders, whether it's, internal, external clients and partners, but also with the things they care about, at a high level, like so much of what we think about is like, how do we provide value between you and I person and person over time, as things get productized, as things get automated, some of that, Client and customer experience is going to be based on how do I interact and engage with the technology itself, right? What is the level of friction between me trying to accomplish that thing I want to accomplish and what it actually takes to get it done? So, I think there's going to be a lot of things out there. I think. VR and AR as it relates to how people see and connect both in a B2C business, consumer, and also B2B business to business context. I think there are applications across the board, I think what we're seeing at a consumer level, in the proliferation of like social audio, I think that's a sign of emergence of a shifting consumer behavior. And I think typically when you see those things, that's the first sign of more things to come. And what that looks like is, oftentimes what working in that, in a consumer context that translates to enterprise context, but who knows? I think all of these things are opportunity and there's a place in a space for all these things to work. Everything I highlighted, none of them. Which I'm working on, or, my organization that is working on just things I'm personally interested in. And I think if they can drive a consumer, if they can drive the consumer better toward what they want, then it's a network
Phil: yeah, super. And, I should have caveated that question to be like, I'm not trying to dig into any special projects that are going on at Google or the things that you guys are working on, but definitely to be what has been helpful in your experience? What has been personable, but if we continue to pull that personal thread, cause, and wanted to dig into a little bit, what recent customer experience, project campaigns implementation their creations, that sort of thing. Have you seen anything that's stood out to you as something that was done really well as a customer experience, engagement replacement, either done by you, way by one of your partners or in the field.
Mark Hall: Yeah, I'll give you an example. That's relevant to my general industry, and I'm happy to give other examples as an end consumer. In the venture capital space, a lot of the processes and the way people engage is really traditional. In that it's, you make connections, you have meetings all through the kind of the traditional means and then decisions are made, and an action is taken. I think some of. The new entrance in players in this space are trying to modernize a lot of, how this works and, that means leveraging things like, text messages and social platforms and all of those things in a way that lowers the barrier of engagement or, gives the convenience back to, one, one or more parties in that. And I've seen that. As it, as an initiation for, finding deals for, investors and folks who are, looking at using just very basic consumer centric things as a way to spur up, potential investment ideas. And there's a lot of emerging social platforms that are allowing folks in the venture space to learn about emerging technologies. And I think some of that's new and exciting because before is very, closed in narrow and siloed in many ways. Whereas we're seeing an emergence of a lot of entrepreneurs and companies, quote, unquote, building in public, meaning that they're not operating in stealth mode and quiet and behind a curtain actually. Publicly building. It's part of that. There's, they're creating community and, or they're enabling people to see what's happening. And as a function of that, the people who are looking to engage with, different entrepreneurs and investors are forced to enter that sphere to participate, which I think is a positive thing. So that's a, let's say an evolution. I don't know if that directly answers your question, but that's an observation I've seen that. I think it's indicative of, it changing, customer experience. I think outside of my world, there's a lot of examples I've seen where I've been delighted by the customer experience, just because either folks go above and beyond, not through technology or processes, but just through sheer effort and, the way that they engage. And I'm always excited when I see that, because I think I'm unique in that. I personally prioritize customer experience as a consumer, more than price for convenience. I'll always vote with my dollars and I'll always, nine times and spend money with a business or organization that prioritize customer experience versus one that doesn't.
Phil: Yeah, I'm with you on both levels. I think the I'll take the latter first. I think, experiences is something that matters more and more. And when someone takes the time and care to deliver a great experience. It's so much more appreciated to me now more than ever. And think you nailed it really with a really good example of customer experience in the venture space, because there's a growing number of these different platforms and services and approaches to communicating about what's going on with the company to open up something. Both domestic and inter domestically, internationally opening up something that lots of people had felt had been closed to a decent number of people. I think that's a, it's a great, it's a great example and leads to another, hopefully not tough, but really cool question because it's a road it's about measurement. It's really challenging for relationship-oriented companies to measure. Customer experience. I don't know if you guys use net promoter score or something similar or if it's just but there's a gut feeling or there's something like that. So to what extent you can answer, can you describe how you would measure the benefit of a customer experience for one of your clients or how you would recommend someone to try and measure it? Who is working in a relationship-based business like yours?
Mark Hall: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely something that, that we spend time thinking through. And generally I describe it that, we use a lot of, traditional measurement, processes, but because it's such a relationship driven environment, I think going one step beyond that and. Having a clear, and like we talked about self-awareness earlier doing that as an organization and understanding how our relationships are evolving over time and how you do that comes in different shapes and forms. You can use technologies and surveys to do those things, but anecdotally, right? What are the. The ways that you're seeing that relationship evolve in terms of, maybe connections and introductions that your client or partner has made or what a, what's the sentiment of, or has conversations you've had with a given partner, a client change, and what's the tone. And, as you bring in other stakeholders, like, how are they referencing? How are they looking at you? What I would advise others to do in a similar space or capacity is doing all those things, but also humanizing the way that you measure these things. And some of that's as simple as. In your relationship with all your clients and partners, how often are you actually having that gut-check conversation? How often are you having that? Check-in on, what's working, what's not right. Like what, what needs to change? What needs to stay the same and how do we expand this opportunity here? And oftentimes by doing that, you're creating. A whole new sort of value chain in that they see you as trying to, elevate the conversation of relationship a partnership, but they also give you the opportunity to open up new avenues where maybe you're just unaware because you haven't evaluated those things as much before. I think as much as you can keep it person to person or organization, beyond just the traditional tools and processes, I think it's good. But yeah. The real answer, my, my genuine answers, all of the above. Whatever it takes to get it done, get it done, but see it as a journey and an ongoing process. It doesn't, there's no finite stopping point because relationships evolve over time.
Phil: Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. It's probably disheartening to people who were looking for a great, a great silver bullet for them to measure this, but it really does require the amount of effort, but I really appreciate your comment about the gut-check conversation, because people have tried to. To find the words, they talk about authenticity. They talk about empathy, but I think if you say, I feel like we're okay, are we okay? That kind of covers all those things. It's honest, it's open. It's asking the person to person that's inquiring about them and their sentiments. And it's getting you in a different place. And I actually, I really think it's the first time that somebody's nailed it, that clearly in that simply so really appreciate you. You're doing that for us. We only have a couple of minutes left. I'm going to go to the lightning round where I just asked three little questions and it's like a super tiny lightning round. As a customer. Can you share a specific example of one of your favorite experiences? Somebody who does it really well.
Mark Hall: Yeah, I'll give you a recent example. Cause I happen to travel with my wife, two weeks ago and we took a flight and it's with that airline. That we use regularly. And, normally airlines is, as most people are not necessarily known to have the greatest customer experience, but what we find is anytime we need to make changes to reservations, call there, they're really understanding and flexible there, but also from the moment that you enter their environment, that. Genuine courtesy that communication, the service from the moment connect with them to the moment you exit the plane. That was a special moment for me that's recent top of mind, because especially in this environment where there's a lot of caution and safety, that's required for people to feel comfortable. Knowing that, organizations, go above and beyond. That's one obvious example. And then another is just when I think of how I purchase and shop, I use a number of platforms, but there's, an e-commerce platform out there that, folks might be familiar with where within a couple of clicks, you can. Buy whatever you want and get whatever you want. that's an experience that I really enjoy when I'm on a mobile app and, within a couple clicks, I can, get what I want. Things like that, I really enjoy because it just makes it easy to accomplish what you want.
Phil: Great. Having recently traveled internationally, having someone who cares to take little basic steps in the right direction, can we really matter a whole lot? And it pays dividends let down the road, you don't know when, but it will pay dividends down the road for sure if you're providing that service. Great. So, second question. If there's one thing you could change about the role of customer experience at a company, what would it be?
Mark Hall: To get elevated more regularly. I think, it's rare to see, customer experience and similar functions, report, as an example of that, this, that the C-suite and I think just being hired more organizations is critical.
Phil: Yeah, senior level acknowledgment, senior level investment in customer experience as a major objective so that everybody gets the value of it. Not just those people who interact directly with customers, but everybody understands. Awesome. Okay. Thank you. All right. Last thing, for our listeners, one, one, one lesson, after thinking about all of this, would you want them to take away from your experience as a customer experience leader?
Mark Hall: I think relationships are everything right within a personal and professional context. We talked about brand really briefly earlier. I think the brand of the organization you represent and the brain that you bring to the table as an individual know, that's partially what helps drive success relationship. And I think when you prioritize. That connection you prioritize oftentimes over the short-term incentives or short-term goals. That at least in my experience is allows you to drive more value. So, prioritizing relationships and recognizing that right. Periods of give and take on both sides is a natural order of, that process and embracing that as key, right?
Not looking at it, from one dimension and not seeing it as I'm constantly taking or I'm constantly giving, if you have a. A dynamic or a relationship or a customer experience process that allows you to ensure that there's that back and forth and continued, building and strengthening of relationship.
That's key.
Phil: Outstanding. Mark, thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it. It's a really joy to get to know you and spend a little time with you. Thanks again for, giving us a little bit of your wisdom and insights.
Mark Hall: Awesome really appreciate it. Thanks.
Phil: And thanks everybody for joining us on again, on another episode of the customer experience show, we'll see you next time.
Mark makes a valuable point. To have an effective partnership, there has to be some letting go of ego. To be comfortable and trusting enough to lean on your partner, To share responsibility and power. Mark says that embracing that dynamic leads to growth on both sides. But I think his overall message is that relationships matter. And when allowed the time, people naturally want to connect, and it’s those connections that ultimately drive success.