Sarah Quinn, VP of Global AI/Digital/CX Sales at TELUS International, shares fascinating insights from an impressive career working with household-name brands - from McDonald’s to J. Crew, to Airbnb, and more. In this episode, Sarah discusses how successful (and not-so-successful) brands navigated significant past changes in public behavior, plus why CX teams should embrace AI to avoid irrelevancy.
Sarah Quinn, VP of Global AI/Digital/CX Sales at TELUS International, shares fascinating insights from an impressive career working with household-name brands - from McDonald’s to J. Crew, to Airbnb, and more. In this episode, Sarah discusses how successful (and not-so-successful) brands navigated significant past changes in public behavior, plus why CX teams should embrace AI to avoid irrelevancy.
About The Guest:
Sarah Quinn is the VP of Global AI/Digital/CX Sales at TELUS International and previously has provided a broad range of strategic consulting services for Fortune 500 companies and more. Sarah began her career as a Direct Marketing superstar, going on to become a proven high-impact turnaround sales strategist in the B2B and B2C enterprise space, helping increase both her employer's and client's bottom line.
Key Quotes:
“It's not what people like that's the most important. It's what they don't like that might be the most important…When people love you, they love you. Like political parties, if I'm a Democrat or Republican, I'm going to vote one way or the other. It's easy to find people firmly on this side or that side, but it's not easy to find people that might go on either side. That's also a part of a marketer's struggle. To understand what they don't like, to me, is as important as what they do.”
“When I say the comment, ‘The customer's always right,’ we know they're not always right. But, it's how do you make them feel like you hear them and you understand, and how do you sway them to maybe understand they're not right?”
“If the last two years didn't prove to marketers that you just can't depend on the environment or history or anything, then I don't know what will. Those that come to the top will come to the top, and the two words I keep saying are agility and flexibility.”
Time Stamps:
*[1:15] Sarah’s role at TELUS International
*[3:50] Biggest changes in CX from the past decades
*[6:33] Tools for getting to know your customer better
*[14:57] Outdated CX techniques
*[16:438] Times regression-modeling worked wonders
*[20:57] What’s next for TELUS International
*[21:49] The future of CX trends
*[26:50] Engaging across generations with the same message
*[35:40] Advice to staying agile and flexible during cultural change
Links
Thanks to our friends
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[00:00:00] Phil: Welcome everybody to another episode of The Customer Experience Show. I'm your host, Phil Dillard. Today, I'm here with the amazing Sarah Quinn VP of global AI and CX at Tellus International, and also known as the queen of loyalty programs. How are you doing today, Sarah?
[00:00:18] Sarah: I'm wonderful, Phil. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:21] Phil: Thank you here with us. It's good to see you. and hear you for those of you who can't see you. so I'm going to jump right into it. cause we had a really good, warmup conversation and I think people will have a lot to learn from you and your experience. So, you know, I often ask people, you know, how they got to the role that they're in because CX is it's a new field and a majority of leaders didn't already start there.
[00:00:44] What can you tell us a little bit about where you started? What part of the company did you start in and how do you describe your role today?
[00:00:50] Sarah: Absolutely. Thank you. the loyalty queen thing was from way, way back one. So I'll start at the beginning. I fell into direct marketing, out of college. I went to university of Denver and came to Chicago with the marketing in mind, but had no idea where that would take me. And I remember one college professor said the number one area of marketing for the future is direct marketing and all of us in them marketing classes.
[00:01:17] mailbox and how boring and it wasn't going to be anything great. And I didn't intend, but it fell into it. And it couldn't have been a more interesting or wonderful ride because with direct marketing, you had to know the person's address. So thereby to send them the product or service. And there's where a regression modeling analysis and understanding really who they were versus billboards, TVs, magazines, things like that.
[00:01:45] that is, an indirect way to understanding what a person wants or would want for a channel of how to be communicated. Now, way back when I was doing this, there wasn't the internet there wasn't cell phones, there wasn't apps.And so I worked with the fortune 500 fortune, 100 fortune 50, and building their initial databases, let alone how to communicate even more directly. Once we knew where someone lived or anything about them as a person.
[00:02:12] Sarah: So, most of my career's been dealt. Just customer experience, but it wasn't called CX. It was called all sorts of things, but it's grown to that. And now I'm with Telus international, which is one of the largest global, BPOs slash AI digital opportunities brand. We'd like to think of ourselves as a brand ambassador for companies to reach their customers in the way they want to be contacted in the way that they need to be contacted, to get that message across and have a wonderful experience.
[00:02:43] However that channel might be. So that's all I do today is try to find folks that are, really looking to give their own customers the best experience.
[00:02:52] Phil: So I love how you ground the basis of your experience in something that a lot of marketers today, especially a lot of young marketers, just, hadn't probably hadn't thought about, right? The progression of going through different stages of major technological shifts and the contribution of the different pieces of expertise that add to that.
[00:03:12] If I'm curious, if you were to say, you know, I'd like to say sometimes everything old is new again, right? If we fast forward from where you started to 20, 22, what is different and what's this.
[00:03:26] Sarah: Great question. I very regularly say when people get overwhelmed by AI or digital or CX that the caveman actually had customer experience, he was sitting there in the cave, looking at his buddy saying, you know, this bone is better than this bone or whatever was the topic of the day. It hasn't changed.
[00:03:48] It's like people just want to be treated with a little comfort care and that you know, mean the message for them. So I feel that again, I fell in, my professor at university of Denver rose. Chuck Patty is a name and my college roommate and I, Looking at each other saying that's so boring.
[00:04:08] And then we both grew to understand throughout the years, how important, how very important, knowing who your customer was. And as I said, I wish I could take credit for coming to Chicago. I ended up with a company that was doing American family publishers, the old egg man for folks that are understanding way back when that was two windows, a sweepstakes, but they were sending it to the home and then they would go to the home and he'd win millions of dollars potentially.
[00:04:38] And so it got people's attention and all of a sudden they thought their mail wasn't just, you know, slapping against a wall, insurers, bankers. They were always the ones that started well, mail everybody. And somebody will answer. as soon as we understood that, People do want to be contacted about things they care about.
[00:04:56] So if you think about it from the beginning, until you knew who that person was living in their house, I use my cul-de-sac today as a good example, there's four of us in a cul-de-sac and one couple is in their eighties, one couples in their seventies, sixties, fifties, they're not interested in the same things they're never going to be.
[00:05:15] And it's interesting when marketers understand or catch onto that, how immediately they'll see it in their profits or ROI, but more importantly, they'll just have longer standing, you know, loyal customers that feel like, wow, you care, that's it. It's that simple to me.
[00:05:33] Phil: So if I'm hearing you right, what's this. People want to be treated with comfort and care. People want to be contacted about things that they care about, and they don't want to be bothered with stuff that they don't, want to have better and better feedback loops. Right? When you're talking about billboards and print, it's different than things that people's homes and the weeds, the way for it to be much more personalized to people, the four different people in your cul-de-sac, right.
[00:05:55] What's new are the tools, the speed and engagement, the Richmonds, the richness, the channels, the additional ability to track and engage. So there are better tools for knowing your customer. is that a fair synopsis?
[00:06:10] Sarah: That's a great synopsis and very fair. And there's a lot of hidden things behind that, that people don't understand. I was lucky enough to, as I said, at the beginning, fall into something that grew to, and with 17 plus years of experience, but what I started, I was employee 89 at a great startup or five programmers said we care about our employees.
[00:06:32] we care even more about our client's customers and they started out of a trunk of a car and they ended up getting bought by Experian for like $358 million or something like that, you know, 15 years later that quickly, because we were the best at technology at that time of matching people's names.
[00:06:51] Sarah: And instead of mailing the phone book, you were mailing the people that might care. And again, our goal was to hit two out of a hundred responses for the mate, most major corporations of the U S 2% response rate in the eighties or nineties was actually, you know, blown it out of the wall. That sounds crazy at the time because of the lack of apps or internet.
[00:07:17] At that point, we were sending catalogs. So before that, you just called up an 800 number. Now you have a catalog that you can get in the home, let the person digest it. Look at it. Really understand. Wait, I do like this and do I trust the system though? Well, I'll call this person. I'll still talk to a person that was a big deal.
[00:07:36] But at the end of it all, if that person in you found them, you realize they were your customer, or they liked you enough to. You know, inquire to ask for your catalog, you know, you, that was liquid gold. that was the, your customer base was your number one asset. So as we grew, we went from just trying to mail things out to a bunch of people to collecting that liquid gold for major corporations and them realizing, wait, you know, we need to cultivate these folks and realize they care about us.
[00:08:10] We can just keep offering them stuff. You always had the out, you know, really from the beginning, I think that's important to know about direct marketing and direct mail. You always had the out, it got better and better with technology, but marketers don't want to send you anything that you don't want to get any more than you wanted.
[00:08:27] You know, get things you don't care about. That's because at the time in the eighties and nineties, it was a dollar a catalog to send it. If I did a great job, my clients looked at me and said, wow, I got two people to respond out of a hundred. So they were thrilled at 98 people out of a hundred, threw it out throughout the catalog, had no interest and they didn't even expect a person to buy from that time.
[00:08:51] But the point being, once you find a customer and you could even get them to buy one more time, they were pretty much your customer for life. And I always like to bring up the example of Victoria secret started out with 50,000 postcards from Columbus, Ohio. They thought, could this ever be that laundry through the mail and this and that?
[00:09:10] Of course, they went into the billions and trillions of catalogs and let alone omni-channel marketing with, you know, the internet, but that's how it started. And they did find yes, you know, people were willing, but you had to trust the channel. But what we found by doing regression modeling was you also had to care about the person and how they wanted to be.
[00:09:31] communicated to that. We didn't have so many choices, but today we do. And it tells us international, like, for example, where I'm working now, it's, you know, chat, you know, the text, voice, email, even mail direct mail is still is there, but rarely not as much as we think of. It's usually the driver to the website, but you know, that does matter because again, if you care about your customer, you care about how they want to be communicated to.
[00:09:58] Sarah: So it started way back and it started a little archaic, but we're still looking at that. So the number one.
[00:10:04] and the metrics that you're using for each of these different, each of these different channels is interesting. You know, as I was thinking, you mean, you said it's a dollar, a catalog to, to reach someone and use you put on a hundred catalogs or a hundred dollars and you get to customers, that's a big win.
[00:10:20] I'm curious how those metrics kind of compare to the metrics of today because you're reaching over a broader range of ways to reach people. Now, some people today, they want to be. Well, customers want to be reached about the things that they care about, but you got to figure out what's the right way to reach them.
[00:10:39] Phil: Is it, do people respond through a billboard? Do people respond to a mailer and a catalog? Do people want a surprise gift or an experience or right. So you have to me and ever increasing array of channels each with its own frequency of communication and metrics each with its own, the people who you're speaking to go to those channels for different things.
[00:11:01] And you're doing it across generational differences and multidimensional, multiple dimensions of diversity of your customer base. So, you know, knowing that you've watched this grow, how do you think about categorizing it and how would you recommend someone who's in a similar CX journey to think about how they can digest and really think about this comprehensively versus just sticking with one.
[00:11:28] Sarah: well, I'll go. I think there's a lot to be learned in the beginning. Like you said, it there's things that are the same, but there's things that are just great lessons to be learned at the very beginning that I've carried with me, my entire career, J crew, was one of my favorite clients forever. I'm still friends with everybody that was back there in the early nineties and late nineties when internet took over and I've always called them my most courageous client because they were a target market of college students.
[00:12:00] College students were the first to have laptops, thereby they were willing to test with us and experiment with emails at the time. If you can believe that people didn't get emails, it didn't have an overloaded inbox, didn't even have an inbox. And so at that time we started an analyzing even as early as the late nineties, like eye movement on websites.
[00:12:23] the idea that how come everybody's ordered at two 30 in the morning? Well, you know, I use this example because it's logical, you know, folks came home from the bar they're in college, they're seeing J crew is a greatest clothes and all of a sudden they're ordering. And we started doing emails at one 30 in the morning, instead of like, you would never think of that.
[00:12:47] Sarah: At that point, I give credit to the company I work for, which was direct marketing technology at the time. And we were bought by Experian and J crew because they both didn't let the boundaries stop them. they both said this is odd, but wait a minute, it makes sense. And let's think about it. The response rates went through the roof.
[00:13:05] people started realizing, wait, you know, when I send the catalog, it was called inkjet processing on the back of the catalog. if someone bought a pair of red shoes, we put the corresponding red belt on their message. It said, Hey, thanks for your last purchase. Would you like a red bell to go with that beautiful red shoe?
[00:13:22] Sarah: It wasn't about their belt or shoe. It was about that. They knew that we were talking to them and we as in the client as in J crew, but, I built, original databases for Oriental trading or office Depot, Playboy enterprises. Anheuser-Busch city Corp. everyone needed data processing at the time because they realized, wait a minute, this is a wealth of knowledge and this isn't, you know, anonymous marketing anymore.
[00:13:49] And that's what TV advertising, and billboards and everything else, which is almost like outdated at for sure. Some of the channels
[00:13:57] Phil: well, you know, I don't know some of them, but there's still a lot of display. There's still a lot of billboards around, you know, I live in San Francisco and there are a lot of companies who put up signs on billboards. Did you go, huh? That's interesting. May have never heard about them. May have not seen about them, but they're trying to reach a different demographic for a different point, which.
[00:14:16] Sarah: oh, it's still there. Absolutely same with TV. Like that's why all marketers are tracking how you finally find them by, codes that they're using. And the reason that they always ask, how did you find or ask for the code? It's because they want to know what's working not so much because you know, they're D they're trying everything it's because they care about you.
[00:14:36] Honestly,the corporations are looking at it. Like they want to get to you as much as you want to get to them. If you're interested. And in my little cul-de-sac my little four person called. They don't want to send to the other three. They don't want to email the other. they want to only communicate with people that do care.
[00:14:55] And I do think that's a misconception as well, that, oh, junk mail or eat these dumb emails and all that stuff. If they knew better, they would do better because they're paying to do that. But they're only doing it. If you're interested, it's kind of a mutual, it's sort of like dating. If you're not interested, I'm not interested.
[00:15:11] But if you are interested, that is the big challenge of the day. if they knew better, they would do better, right. Marketers want to know better cause they don't want to waste the money. They don't want to waste their time. They don't want to waste your time. They want to be able to communicate with you in the way that you want to be communicated against.
[00:15:27] Phil: Now, some people feel like they've been duped or they've been, they've been manipulated or they've been overly analyzed by my marketers and some marketers who actually do that. actually now have called that out as if they were not part of the industry. So it's a tricky thing. If you were to say how well, I don't want to give you to give away any of your secret sauce, right.
[00:15:52] But I'm curious about thinking about how you
[00:15:54] put, if they knew better, they could do better into pre.
[00:15:58] Sarah: Well, go backwards again because I, again, I love the line you used earlier about,learning from the past and not reinventing the wheel. one of my favorite stories of direct marketing was, or regression analysis is probably more appropriate. There was a children's book company. Then I found and we talked and they said, we just don't get it.
[00:16:21] Like our sales go up and down. Our forecasting is off it's this and that. So it wasn't that they weren't doing well. It wasn't that they weren't getting growing and getting new customers and expanding their product line. But again, I'm on the data information side and I still feel like that's where I'm at.
[00:16:38] And so we said, let's do a model. And we wouldn't say let's do a model of some reason blown off the roof. And they figured it all out and they're doing great. That's fine. These guys were doing great, but their seasonality was just way off whack. And it was sort of like it was up and down and there, you know, the executive vice president of marketing is trying to figure out what is it I'm missing again, today's world a lot different.
[00:17:03] This wouldn't apply, but it's how this all grew and how we grew as, you know, marketing and corporations in general. I would never think that like, weather would have anything to do with a children's book company. If you, if I asked you to name the top five things, well, households that have children or, you know, folks that are 20 to 40, you know, there's all kinds of things you would put up there right out of the gate that would be obvious, or just part of what must have made, decisions that were happening.
[00:17:34] It was whether at the end of the day, and that's why we did at the time 5,000 variable plus regression modeling that said the easy stuff is easy. Like we, as a company, never tried to say, well, you know, obviously if you have children that would help inviting children's books, there's still a lot of people that buy children's books for gifts or for whatever the point of it is weather.
[00:17:58] All of a sudden we cut the nation in half. We looked at all the variables and what pops out. That's why I find regression modeling. So interesting. It's not what you think is going to be important. It's what. You don't think is important, or I always like to say this as well. It's not what people like, that's the most important.
[00:18:17] It's what they don't like might be the most important because it's not as easy to understand what people don't want or for marketers. It's not always the popular fun thing when your internal saying, well, maybe we shouldn't go after this crowd because of XYZ, but that's the hard part.
[00:18:34] I think when people love you, they love you. And you know, like political parties, if I'm a Democrat or Republican, I'm going to vote one way or the other, it's easy to find all of us or this side, that side, it's not easy to find everybody in. That, that might go either side. And that's also a part of a marketer's struggle is to understand it's what they don't like to me is as important as what they do.
[00:18:59] Like, because in that case, we divided the country in half for them within a month, they doubled. And then within four months tripled their sales because all the kids in Minnesota felt didn't really need to, you know, they couldn't go out and play. The kids in Miami actually could go out and play still had a choice.
[00:19:18] All of a sudden, by doing it geographically by weather. I never could've. Nobody could have predicted that, but regression modeling could. So again, it's very, sometimes strange things that bring you to the point of where you can change your home marketing strategy to something that will transform your.
[00:19:34] Phil: So what I'm hearing you say is I'm putting into the practice, capture the data, analyze the data, but collect creative. Think about likes and dislikes. Think about how you find the middle. So you're not just listening to the ends, but you're finding new opportunities for your, for your clients.
[00:19:52] in this section, I want to talk about, the vision, trends and like technology and things like that and how it matters for different people like generations or different types of segments of folks, but like doing what you know now, the way you describe CX what's the vision for your company going.
[00:20:09] Sarah: I think that we continue continually learn from our clients number one, and that keeps up. Moving forward as quickly as we are, and,when I look at caring about the customer, I think that in all levels of companies, small, large, in-between the sooner they understand that the customer is always right, which may or may not be really true. All the way, but it is true at the end of the day.
[00:20:39] Phil: I mean, you keep it simple. and I love that because you're like, it's a simple game and I'm sure some people might talk about a lot of details, but the basics, the fundamentals are still remained the same. so I'm curious if you think about any generational or technology trends that you see, rising that would drive,that you think are gonna be important in the next year.
[00:21:00] Sarah: I think that,generally, relationally speaking, millennials, gen X, gen, Y everybody, since baby boomer slash onward, have cared about the company and. Philosophies and their motives and their actual actions. And I've learned that from my son, I have one child mark, who I learned from every day.
[00:21:21] I've learned from the day he was born and he's helped me in my marketing career on and on. And when he started at 16, 17, well, mom, they're not, climate, sensitive, or they're not looking at the future. All of these things that have gone and grown to where I won't buy certain brands at the grocery store to plastic bottle.
[00:21:42] Cause I can get them, in a glass bottle at home I'll use that as an example, because I've learned from him, he's right. That's horrified for the environment but that's. Paradigm shift. That's a situational shift that is so important for marketers and companies to understand that, you know, if you're not doing the right thing, it didn't matter before.
[00:22:03] If you were the cheapest, you were the easy, you know, easy access this or that consumer spot, what was easier, good. Now they'll stop and pay more. And I've learned that from my son and I love it. And I think that here I am in the thick of it every day, but I'll respect a company that cares about, consumers and cares about the climate and whatever, because in the end of the day, that's, what's going to matter well beyond everybody listening to this podcast,
[00:22:31] Phil: I mean, you know, you make a really interesting point about, you know, if you're looking at everyone and if you're analyzing the data, you're kind of trying to learn from these different folks all the time. Right. and the thing that I think is really interesting in that is that, you're you live with your son, right?
[00:22:47] You, you live with his experience influenced your experiences. Cause so reaching a millennial, reaching gen Z doesn't necessarily avoid reaching a gen X person or be a boomer or even a zero, right. Because it's an entry point for a conversation it's, it, and it can be contextual, right? It can be, you know, because the kid can influence.
[00:23:08] The parent can influence the kid. You know, you can have some real conversations. There's lots of opportunity there. It doesn't have to be, oh, we only talked to millennials. We only care about millennial marketing because blah, blah, blah. Right. There are smarter ways to go about it. And they're smarter. and yours is a data-driven approach looking for how you can find understanding.
[00:23:28] And then what I'm assuming is you find or build technology that gives you the solutions that you need. once you know,
[00:23:35] who you're going after, how they want to be reached and how you're trying to, how you're trying to engage with them is that fair?
[00:23:41] Sarah: Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you. You're a great summarizer fail because I'll throw out the other half of that end of the stick. My, poor mom and dad had seven kids and 19 years, and my brother's 19 years older than me. So he's actually the beginning of the baby boomers and not to give my age away, but I'm the end.
[00:24:02] And then my son is obviously in a different generation and so the three of us will get in a conversation and I think. Absolutely fascinating. but at the root of it all, what ends up counting is I just want to feel special. That's why, when you began with the queen of loyalty programs, I worked with McDonald's and Dunkin donuts and all kinds of folks.
[00:24:22] And then in the two thousands, and I said, Hey guys, if you were smart, you would. You know, when the first notion of going outside of your house for a cup of coffee, was it 25 cents, 35 cents, $5 now, whatever, it's crazy to comprehend that if you were alive and walking around before that. But I was in the president of McDonald's office in 2007 saying, somebody's going to get this right.
[00:24:49] And that's, if you buy four coffees, get the fifth one free. There's a way to draw that person. Because at the end of the day, the coffee's not the difference. It's how you make the person feel that stringing the coffee.
[00:25:00] Phil: They're speaking to somebody who's you, who wants to be recognized for their volume and who's seeking a similar experience. Right? and if the McDonald's customer is the volume customer, then that it's, an alignment, and an understanding component, which I think is super important.
[00:25:17] I think, you know, you also alluded to employee experience, which I want to get to a little bit, get to later. I don't want to forget that, but you also alluded something. I think it's really important and it's, I'm just gonna call it the like the impact component and. Increasingly with CXOs, I'm talking about how impact matters to consumers in a way that it has not, or has in a way that's changed.
[00:25:40] Phil: That's clearly shifted and it's clearly shifted and accelerated in the past 24 months. a lot of it's pandemic in present pandemic, but it's been the rising as people talk about climate issues and all these different things. So, I'm curious how you think about the impact story, cause you alluded to it a little bit saying that consumers are always rule, but there'll be influenced something will shift consumer behavior and brands have an opportunity to lead.
[00:26:03] They also have the obligation to pay attention to the data, to see where the indicators are going and see how can we align this with our ethos or with their ethos. So can you talk a little bit about how you're thinking about how you're thinking about impact, how you're tracking it? Because you mentioned a little something. people caring about the environment, people caring about, how you, how they represent. I'm curious where your head is on that.
[00:26:26] Sarah: I think when I say that comment, the customer's always right. We know they're not always right, but it's how do you make them feel like you hear them and you understand, and how do you sway them to maybe understand they're not right. I just think that the market. End of the bargain with their customer is I hear you. So again, if it's not right, you'll help them lead them to the way of understanding why it is or isn't right. Because as we now know, versus at the beginning now it's inbox, you know, the pollution there's, you can't even find the right marketer you ought to look at or the right catalog or that. Only through a website or whatever. it's just, everything changes with the times. It changes with the decades, but the same core thing goes back to it shows that you just listen and watch and realize who again really wants to hear from you.
[00:27:21] I think markers would be thrilled if you told them. And now in today's technology, it can, for sure, you don't have to hit me again. It was just a gift. I don't like you move on and it's nothing personal. I think that marketers would pay you to do that. If you
[00:27:36] Phil: but it gives you an opportunity to understand what percentage of the sales are gifts. So if you were going to create a different marketing campaign, I mean, if you said, you know, these kids come from this location and their grandparents are in that location and I wanted to reach them on a, I'm gonna make it up on bill.
[00:27:52] On a postcard, right? Then I could.
[00:27:55] do the postcard of the, you know, periodic gift or a something that's like a periodic gift program or a recommendations for this holiday or that holiday, or graduation's coming up or whichever things at least you can think about, not just blanketing them with a certain message, but you can give them a message that's relevant at the time.
[00:28:12] And I think that's a really important thing to, to take advantage of what do you think about this case when it's the we've tried before and failed, but now things are different case. And to me, that's the world of electric vehicles today. I mean, there are multiple attempts for EVs, over decades, right?
[00:28:29] Technology, the technology is not really the challenge. well, per se, right? or the concept is not the challenge per se, but things have changed. how do you think about, conveying to your client, how to present. You know where they are in that is this we're trying, and it's not working right now.
[00:28:45] Or we tried before that and failed, but now is the time to start to try
[00:28:49] Sarah: Well, it's funny, you said electric vehicles. If you asked me that two weeks ago, when we were trying to get together a couple of weeks ago, I would actually have a whole different answer. Then I went to the gas pump today this morning and filled up. How about that? Okay. So there's the difference.
[00:29:06] It's called adaptability and the companies that do realize I have to adapt. I have to move. I have to run when the moment is right. There's a good example of it. I think I've never seen more hybrid or electric car commercials in the last few months, but it had nothing to even do with the most recent events, but that hurt at the pump.
[00:29:26] I'll be honest. It was crazy. I went from one night to the next day and the difference is. It's those who are listening and are adaptable and flexible. And those who feel like, you know, they have sort of the handle on their client and they're going to keep going with that and go right down with the ship.
[00:29:46] I don't, if the last two years didn't prove to marketers that you just can't depend on environment or history or anything, then I don't know what well, and those that come to the top will come to the top. and the two words I keep saying, her agility and flexibility.
[00:30:02] Phil: if you think about that internally, I love that. I love that whole, that you're you've got it nailed. Right? If you think about how to build the internal capacity for the agility, the flexibility, the data-driven insights. Can you talk a little bit about how you do it and.
[00:30:17] how you might recommend for other folks to think about what they need to do to be successful?
[00:30:22] Sarah: I would say in today's world, I'm looking at marketers that have been in the business 23. Or beyond years and like myself and, AI, just the term, AI digital. I see it now we're on zoom now. It's not getting person. And from since 2020, I see the fear in people's eyes. I see people going, oh my God, I know I should know more.
[00:30:44] I should do more. This is crazy, but I haven't even started. I don't want to admit I haven't started. Even the biggest companies. You'd be surprised. It's universal. Everybody's feeling the same way I feel, or others jumped and they knew better, whatever you want to say or COVID took us different places. But I always try to start out with very soon.
[00:31:07] Terms and say, Hey, a bot is just nothing more than taking a and B and putting it together. It's like a recipe when you're in the kitchen, you know, I can make bouillabaisse by throwing this and that and the pot, but it's called bouillabaisse. It sounds so complicated. It's really not. It's taking our customer's information and realizing, a big box store, not the two big ones, Costco and Sam's, but I'll say the third one, they thought they had to get more people and asked us for a hundred people.
[00:31:35] No, at the end of the day, they didn't need anything, but somebody really looked at the data and understood the idea or understood our, opportunities in technology to see. Why does everybody call a big box store? They don't call to say, Hey, do you have eggs today? No. They have 10,000 eggs every day. We all know that if we go to Costco, they have 10,000.
[00:31:56] Why do people call? They don't want to get to the cash register and find out they got to go to that awful customer service line where, oh no, I'll have to wait in a horrible line. Was my entire cart of too much stuff. I never went in there to buy. It feels like me. So guess what? We just looked at their data.
[00:32:14] Everybody's calling for the same reason. They asked us for over like, you know, a hundred people were looking at them and said, you can reduce even the people you have, because at the end of the day, everybody calls for the same thing. Just integrate it with your IVR. number one for directions to, for store hours.
[00:32:32] Number three, do you need to know when your membership's up? It's there's only 12 months. It was so simple. And we walked away from the business and said, you don't need us. And you don't. Actually, you could probably let go. A lot of people who had, cause they were putting a band-aid on a band-aid on a band-aid and when you look at something that's simple and then people say, well, how do you know, earn a living?
[00:32:52] Or how do you make revenue? Well, because they moved all their business to us because we were the honest ones that came in and said, you don't even need us because it's something sometimes in front of you. And we all know that as regular people, consumers, the answer can be right in front of you sometimes.
[00:33:07] And so you just have to kind of look at and realize digital AI is just the exaggerated or one step up version of logic. And AI is all of us. What we think every day. You know, there once was a day when I wish CVS would say, Hey, you know, we're open till nine, Sarah. I know you're driving from downtown Chicago and you don't know if you'll make it by 9:00 PM, but you call us and we'll tell you that before you even have to go to a human.
[00:33:35] And I say, I love you, CVS or whomever, Walgreens. That's simple. That's AI. And that's what I think people need to understand. It's logic and machines can do a lot of logic, but it's also really important to emphasize it. We're never going to get rid of people. It's not about replacing people, even the people that might've been doing, routine jobs or things that helped with CX or whatever.
[00:33:59] They'll just be part of a more important step of better customer experience. Now, a phone agent doesn't have to spend as much time telling you what time we close, but they could say, well, what's your problem or what you're coming in for. And do we have it and stuff like that. So if I left with one thought, I hope people won't be afraid of AI or digital either term.
[00:34:20] They're just saying we can do things better and easier and make your customer happy. And to me, that's pretty much.
[00:34:26] Phil: Outstanding. So, just to recap, before we go to the lightning round, I heard build the capacity to understand the data, build the technology that allows your people to communicate with the customers in the way that the customers want to be reached. Right. Use the AI to help understand people and then figure out how to put your people in the right places.
[00:34:45] When I heard you say we recommend it to a client to. Do more, do better with less people because the people were in the wrong spot. that's a big deal for everyone, for the company, for the people who are doing the work for the customers who need the service. So, that's, I think that's really helpful and I'm also really hopeful that it's like put into story because it's one thing to talk about those things, and then they're strapped layer to, but dead.
[00:35:08] But that story really happened to be like visceral and real for me. So I appreciate that. so, I know we're running late on time, but I'd love to do the lightning round with you really quickly. And I hope you can stick around to, to answer a couple of these questions. So, as you know, we do the same three questions at the end in the lightning round.
[00:35:26] So, question number one as a customer, what's an example of one of your favorite experience.
[00:35:31] I would say it's very specific, but there, and again, it's not surprising a Ritz Carlton by a company I worked for many years in Atlanta and Buckhead gave me the best CX I ever had. And that's quite simple by it wasn't anything fancy or it wasn't monetarily different things. They didn't give me bottles of liquid gold or something like that.
[00:35:56] Sarah: They knew my name when I came in and we had a deal with them with our other client who happened to be one of their bigger clients. So they extended the service. Trust me, I wouldn't be staying there if it wasn't for that. But I got to feel like, wow, this is how this side of it works. And yeah. When the driver of the car would take you around for tourists, we miles.
[00:36:18] And he'd been there 40 years. He never forgot my name. I of course do. I know they probably prompted them. maybe not. When I texted him from the airport, they were prompting him. When he gave me his cell number. I never felt more like loved or appreciated. the other one would be the buy four, get one free. I started in 2007, I got to the president's office and McDonald's and the president's office of Dunkin donuts. And at the time we were all struggling and feeling our way, but they got it. I got it. It's like. You do matter, you might only buy five cups of coffee from somebody, but they do care and they will care.
[00:36:54] I see it Yeah. I love the horse Schultz story. I've read, excellence wins about the Ritz Carlton. And it's one of my, one of my favorites, in him just talking about simple ways to empower everyone in your organization to deliver the experience that you want and then celebrating way people do it was just really outstanding.
[00:37:11] Phil: So I'm glad that I'm glad you brought that up.
[00:37:13] Sarah: it wasn't the pants and the shampoo, but that didn't hurt either. I will throw that
[00:37:16] Phil: All right. number two, if there's one thing you could change about people's perception of the role of customer experience at a company, what would.
[00:37:24] Sarah: it's that people do care that the companies I work with, they do care. They care about each of us. And I do think that's misunderstood and I base it on my own family and I base it on, you know, consumers I talked to and especially if my, you know, clients or, folks I'm working on. I go, when I find out, you know, their own consumers and I try to learn because it, they do care and they aren't after just everybody there after you.
[00:37:53] And so, yes, I had to drink a lot of beer for it. I, or bushes and other different companies, but I do what I gotta do, Phil, but I would leave with that one sentence. They, the company do care and for many reasons, but the best reasons is they care about
[00:38:07] Phil: So many people they're just really passionate. They want people to win there. There are so many more great people out there than the, than I think people give credit. okay. Last one of the lightning round for our listeners. What one lesson would you.
[00:38:20] want them to take away from your experience as a CX leader?
[00:38:24] never forget the impossible. I think that the impossible is possible. And I learned that from great leaders that have been before me, but I think that's the best rule of thumb for the marketer, for the corporation, for the consumer. If you're not getting what you want, you know, now there's avenues to express that there's Yelp and there's, you know, Amazon board, everything else.
[00:38:50] Sarah: I never thought I'd see the day. I see it now from the consumer side. But I think from our job as marketers and, partners in getting folks, what they need is don't, you know, never say the impossible is impossible.
[00:39:04] Phil: Yeah, sure. It's, I've heard, it said a number of times. It's impossible. until It's done. Right. I remember when social media emerged on the scene and corporations didn't understand what to do at and didn't understand do with it or how it was going to be used. And then there's some folks who might feel. being out on a new platform and being, being wrong.
[00:39:25] But there's some people that are gonna embrace that risk as an opportunity to experiment and explore and learn, and meet folks. So, so if that one tool gives you the ability to create something that was impossible and make it possible.
[00:39:37] like a real-time live conversation with your customer. Well, now you're now you don't have the excuse of it being impossible anymore.
[00:39:46] Sarah: right. And they're trying to follow, they're trying to listen, or they're trying to work with folks like myself, which are following it and helping them understand better. But, if you don't mind, I'll just share one last thing. I had a client when the internet came out and said, no, ain't gonna happen.
[00:40:00] Ain't gonna last. And they were a hundred percent foam base. They had no retail stores. This particular was party store favors and all kinds of stuff, worldwide known.
[00:40:11] He said, not going to do it, not going to do it.
[00:40:13] And I said, it's a simple analogy, but I said, you know, the bus is going on. And you don't have to get on, but 10 minutes later, the bus is going to come by again and it'll keep coming by and coming by till you get on, it's not a choice in technology is the same way AI digital. It doesn't have to be complicated, but it will slowly, oh, you know, help the market or get better.
[00:40:37] But like the internet, I didn't, you know, say that anyone was wrong to be afraid or all that stuff, buying through the mail, your 10 transaction, all that stuff. And he waited eight months, that same person, billion dollar company, it ended up 80 20 shift in paradigm from 80%, you know, phone orders, 20% print mailed orders to 80% internet with less than 12 months, what do you think you might have? you would've could've said to him to get him to be able to commit sooner.
[00:41:11] I thought the bus analogy was good because I knew he was going to get on board, but I just, the data wasn't there yet. I did try everything. I knew. I, the one thing I kept saying was you don't have the outlet of retail where most of my clients, at that time they had retail stores and they had that and we had more different data coming in and everything was going to the internet.
[00:41:33] But, with him it was even more important. And so I did say, I think you're going to benefit the most. It. I, what I guess I'm trying to say is that, you know, I don't fault people for taking a moment or breath. I think that, you know, AI, digital, everything is scary, but I think it's sometimes meant to be scary or complicated or vendors are coming at you saying all these things.
[00:41:57] I hope if nothing, anyone took anything from today, it's that it's not that complicated. It's not that
[00:42:02] Phil: Yeah. That's a great part. It's not that complicated. People will throw a lot of words and a lot of jargon they'll throw a snow job at you, right? A lot of irrelevant information that makes it sound complicated so that you need someone to demystify, but you don't necessarily need that. What you want is a partner who makes it simple and shows where the value is.
[00:42:22] And one of the things I've found through the. conversations is talking about that in terms of assumptions and saying to someone like that, what assumptions would you be making that if they were wrong? if you were right, you would win. And if you're wrong, you might lose really badly because it's not that, you know, fear is one thing.
[00:42:40] Risk is another. And if their risk assessment is off or they haven't thought through the different.
[00:42:46] risks, you know, FOMO is a great way of looking at it. Cause somebody goes, I don't know what they're doing, but I want to be where they are and it would go, well, maybe you want to be there where they are.
[00:42:54] Where do you think the bus is going? and, what do you think of the pluses and, the minuses of being on the bus? and if they go through them and go, ah, damn, I probably really should be on the bus to figure this out. Then you're like, great. Cause we can help you capture the data and we can help tell you that story.
[00:43:08] And I tell that story in one of assumptions and risk assessment,
[00:43:12] Sarah: well,and a big difference to me, and that is times are different than actual paradigm shifts. And that's also something to remember is trends can come up and down and how to communicate to people can go up and down sometimes with the channels of how you do it. Won't change significantly.
[00:43:30] Once they're still. Uh, AI, digital internet. Those are not going to come and go. They're there. It's how you use them. I know we're out of time on this one, but I hope that we can come back in, I don't know, six to nine to 12 months to talk about what sort of things you're seeing and learning with the data and with the AI, because that opens, it potentially opens a whole new level of being able to really understand and in, and engage.
[00:43:58] well, thank you, Ron. I'll say this. I appreciate that. Cause I would love to share that out right now in the next 12 months, I'm focusing personally on purpose with travel hospitality, airlines, rental, car, everything. Of the situation our world was in. That's where I feel like my expertise could help the most to get out of a hole or to focus on something.
[00:44:19] And I've never really focused in that. I've always, I've worked with airlines before hotel major chain. I'm focusing 100% on that. So I would love to follow up with you on that because we called it the comeback last April, and now we're doing a, a whole webinars, panel in a few weeks called, the comeback part two because it wasn't the comeback.
[00:44:38] And what did we learn from it? And there's a lot to be said because, streaming services and all kinds of other things we've talked. possibly that have thrived in the, in this pandemic and stuff like that. There's no lesson to be learned as much as the folks that got wiped out and had no way out.
[00:44:55] it feels like the right time because people want to get out and people want to get out and see the world again and they want to participate, but there's all this, you know, just as we're getting out of COVID, there is a new risk and a new challenge and,people want to live and people want, they also want to help other people and they also want to do what's right for the environment.
[00:45:17] and, your, analytic and simplification will probably be helpful for a whole lot of folks. So I look forward to hearing what that's about.
[00:45:25] Sarah: well, thank you. Thanks so much for your time. And, Thank you everyone else who for joining us on this episode of the customer experience show, we will see you. next time.
[00:45:34] Phil: Have a great day.